Saturday, February 11, 2006


"Let us not wallow in the valley of despair. I say to you today my friends - so even though we face the difficulties of today and tomorrow, I still have a dream." ~ Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., 1963.

In the coming days and weeks, we will be subjected to a great number of rumors, propaganda and lies about the murder of the Kurdish veteran, Kani Yilmaz and his bodyguard, in Silêmanî. I am certain of it because this is always the way it is. So I must say something before all of that happens because, in a way, Kani's death closes the door a little more on a period of Kurdish history that has seen many great changes for the Kurdish people and has also seen many great mistakes.

No human being lives a perfect life because we are all imperfect creatures. I am sure that Kani's life was no different because he was also a human being. In spite of whatever personal or professional imperfections Kani had, he spent his life in the service of Kurdistan and he has become a Şehîd of Kurdistan. He never gave up the dream, no matter what the difficulty and Kani faced many difficulties during his life, during his time in service to Kurdistan, especially Turkish-occupied Kurdistan.

When one goes to the mountains, it is a certainty that one will never return home. So it has come to pass for Kani.

I have no wisdom, no insight, no words of my own, really, to convey my own feelings on this death. In my own mind, I keep returning to the words of the Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., who also spent his life fighting for the cause of his own people and who used the imagery of dreams and mountaintops in his public speeches. On the night before Dr. King was assassinated, he spoke the following words in Memphis, Tennessee, and they are the words that I keep remembering now:

Well, I don't know what will happen now. We've got some difficult days ahead. But it doesn't matter with me now. Because I've been to the mountaintop. And I don't mind. Like anybody, I would like to live a long life. Longevity has its place. But I'm not concerned about that now. I just want to do God's will. And He's allowed me to go up to the mountain. And I've looked over. And I've seen the promised land. I may not get there with you. But I want you to know tonight, that we, as a people, will get to the promised land. And I'm happy, tonight. I'm not worried about anything. I'm not fearing any man. Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the Lord.

I encourage everyone to make a close read of that speech, or to listen to it at the link. It has much to say to Kurds and to all those who hope for the best for Kurds and Kurdistan. It speaks to each Kurdish life that has been cut short in battle.

To Kani, şev xoş, heval.


Philip said...

Mizgin, Kani Yilmaz appears to have been a very thoughtful, independent-minded man, acc. to this article at this link--what a tragedy and loss for the Kurdish nation! May he rest in peace.

Mizgîn said...

There is always hope when another individual or another group works to contribute to the Kurdish cause.

Sadly, the work of Kani Yilmaz is left unfinished.

The only thing I can hope for is that many others will spring up to take his place and carry on.

I think that these words of Dr. King hold a particularly important meaning for Kurds:

"Now, what does all of this mean in this great period of history? It means that we've got to stay together. We've got to stay together and maintain unity. You know, whenever Pharaoh wanted to prolong the period of slavery in Egypt, he had a favorite, favorite formula for doing it. What was that? He kept the slaves fighting among themselves. But whenever the slaves get together, something happens in Pharaoh's court, and he cannot hold the slaves in slavery. When the slaves get together, that's the beginning of getting out of slavery. Now let us maintain unity."

This is what must happen.

Litmus said...

Funny, this is the sort of well-meaning speech politicians and others in Turkey deliver when adressing the Kurdish issue in the country, in the People of Turkey vs The Rest of the World context. If Kurdish groups fight amongst themselves, don't they rationalize it by saying that they have been wronged by the other or that the other group is trying to impose their will on them?

Mizgîn said...

Some might try to pass the buck by saying that they were wronged by another group, but when we have space in time to see what was going on during a specific period, we can also see that there were other fingers in the pie making a big mess.

The bottom line here is that it is time for Kurds to learn from the past (as those who don't learn from the past are forced to repeat it) and to work together, even if there are opposing interests. There must be certain political goals outlined and agreed upon toward which everyone can work, no matter what part of Kurdistan one comes from or what party/congress/confederation/etc one favors.

There needs to be a certain egalitarianism among all sections of Kurdish society.

vladimir said...

This action was very stupid. Almost everything points out it was committed by the PKK, if you look to the Kurdishmedia (.com).

Actions like this must be condemned. This is not democratic at all.

Tom said...

It is not the first it won't be the last, all members of PWD are on the "ölüm listesi" (list of death ) of PKK, and 5 of them have already been killed since 2004. PKK has always killed opponents and dissidents, especially ex-commanders of the guerrilla disgusted by Öcalan: Yilmaz, çurukkaya...cemil bayik was sentenced to death as well in 2002 and fled to Iran. I don't get how things turned well for him ! Too popular to be killed maybe...
I'm sorry Mizgin (funny there is a "mizgin sen" on the death list, ex representative of kongra gel in europe), but we don't really need time to see which fingers were in the pie. There is no big mess, but evidences proving that PKK is reponsible for this coward killing.

Philip said...

The Kurds need to see the importance and value of that beautiful word:


Mizgîn said...

Does condemnation raise the dead?

Why should I believe KurdishMedia, Vladimir? Am I required to swallow everything that they publish, or is criticism of the media permitted? I agree, this act was not democratic, but we are not dealing with democratic forces here, are we?

Tom reminds me of a particular character in a film classic, Twelve Angry Men. This character was also convinced by "evidences" due to his prejudices. Or maybe he is more of an Oxbow Incident man, you know, as part of the posse. Those are hints to the culturally- and legally-challenged.

Did it ever occur to you, Tom, that I may know slightly more about Mizgîn Sen than you? Which is why it is always so amusing when the "pure" like to throw her name around with crocodile tears. Do YOU know how deep into it she is, Tom? She's not the virgin you think she is.

You're right, Philip. Solidarity is the single most important thing to learn at this moment. Unfortunately, it is a lesson deeply hidden by all the "evidence."

Litmus said...

You may be forgetting that getting rid of the opposition can be seen, when one is in a trance, as a strategy for "unity". The emphasis you place on looking forward and "closing the door on a period of Kurdish history", whether it is your intention or not seems to brush aside accountability, perhaps because of the fear it will lead to finger-pointing and division-- but it could in fact play into the hands of the guilty.

"Tom reminds me of a particular character in a film classic, Twelve Angry Men. This character was also convinced by "evidences" due to his prejudices."

There is something worse than this, and that is a character who dismisses evidence in toto. Rejecting one hypothesis, you do not state what sort of evidence or counter-evidence tagged on whichever suspected groups (Turkish or Kurdish) will convince you of their guilt. Instead of counter-attacking tom's specific point, you attack his character. How do you go from Tom mentioning that a mizgin is on a PKK hitlist to him claiming that she is a virgin, exactly?

Mizgîn said...

Where have I placed emphasis on "closing the door," Litmus. I believe I said that a door is closing "a little more." I don't know where you get the idea that such a statement brushes aside accountability.

Who has rejected evidence in toto? Are you worried that I have not commented on the evidence yet? Not to worry. If I had commented already, I would be accused of what I have already, correctly, accused others of doing, spreading lies, rumors and propaganda. Patience, Litmus, is a virtue.

What do you know about Mizgîn Sen? It really is strange that she's "disappeared," isn't it? Especially in light of Murat Karayilan's recent statement on Kani's death.

Litmus said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Litmus said...

Where have I placed emphasis on "closing the door," Litmus. I believe I said that a door is closing "a little more."

Umm, what is the difference in the intented meaning of "closing the door" and "closing the door a little more" in this context? What does one idea express that the other does not here?

If I had commented already, I would be accused of what I have already, correctly, accused others of doing, spreading lies, rumors and propaganda.

This is odd, There's nothing inherent in commenting on evidence that prevents one from giving reasons for doubting the evidence that has been presented thus far. This is not called "spreading rumors and lies", it's called investigating. Did you call for patience when you were assigning blame for the bird flu deaths?

Who has rejected evidence in toto?

If one uses the method of rejecting someone's take on it without giving any reason why, then that is where the road leads:

Why should I believe KurdishMedia, Vladimir? Am I required to swallow everything that they publish, or is criticism of the media permitted?

Replace KurdishMedia by X here, and you see how vacuous this is. Coupled with "condemnation doesn't bring back the dead," this doesn't paint the picture of somebody advocating getting to the bottom of anything. If we limited our actions to that which brought back the dead, we would join them pretty soon.

Doesn't what one does in this space ideally share the goal of an honest press, that is, to search for the truth and suggest solutions to existing problems. If every news organ took your advice and didn't comment on the evidence, then there wouldn't anyone investigating the investigation. No one is asking you to spread rumors or lies, I myself am simply asking you to either look into it or, if you doubt someone's conclusions, to state where they have gone wrong in their analysis and point to gaps that indicate reasonable doubt.

What do you know about Mizgîn Sen?

Again I will repeat: How do you go from Tom mentioning that a mizgin is on a PKK hitlist to him claiming that she is a virgin, exactly? The issue Tom was adressing wasn't the debate on the morality of vigilante justice, the issue was whether what has happen is in fact such a thing.

Nistiman said...

Litmus, I don’t get why you are being hyper-critical of the way Mizgin has handled Tom or Vladimir’s remarks. He and others with a set ideological orientation with respect to the PKK are prone to find any evidence as sufficient to declare the PKK guilty – regardless of the probative value of the accusation and of the very complicated context in which it may arise.

Where the concept “Innocent until proven guilty” is not applied to the PKK, it is fair for Mizgin to point this out even without providing any new evidence that would exculpate the PKK. Her caution to hold off coming to rash conclusions does not, in my mind, show her ‘closing any doors’ but rather is a necessary first step for any real truth-seeking to be possible…

Litmus said...

He and others with a set ideological orientation with respect to the PKK are prone to find any evidence as sufficient to declare the PKK guilty

Look, this is how I think reasoning works: you debunk someone's specific points then declare them unjustly prejudiced in a certain case. You don't declare them prejudiced and then claim that this entails the complete falsity of their points. What you claim about Tom's and Vladamir's views regarding the PKK can be said of Mizgin's views regarding the Turkish State. Someone may say, "How is it that when the issue involves Turkish guilt, the situation is glaringly simple but whenever there is a possiblility of Kurdish guilt suddenly there is talk of patience and about how the situation is 'very complicated'" For such a person to glance at her conclusions involving Turkish guilt to say, "Oh she's prejudiced, why should I believe her" would be irresponsible--it's reverse engineered rationalization. It has no bearing on the arguments she presents whatsoever. If that person cannot present arguments that bring doubt to her points, there is no reason for anyone to believe him. The guy is not credible period. That is all I'm saying.

Where the concept “Innocent until proven guilty” is not applied to the PKK, it is fair for Mizgin to point this out even without providing any new evidence that would exculpate the PKK.

If someone bothers to mention points like the existence of a hitlist, that means he is working under the "innocent until proven guilty" system. If it was "guilty until proven innocent" why would he bother with trying to establish guilt? The reason why people get convicted of crimes is because the defense fails to instill reasonable doubt in the evidence the prosecutor presents. If a prosecutor is racist, that does not in any way make the DNA evidence he presents in the court racist. That would be silly. If anything, it should motivate the defense to scrutinize the specific evidence even more.

Look, it may turn out that Vladimir and Tom are wrong, but it's not going to happen because everyone collectively said "why should I believe you?" I have no problem with waiting until one feels something is true "beyond a reasonable doubt," but I would like it if they could establish the grounds for such a doubt. I'm just against the idea of waiting until you like what you hear.

Mizgîn said...

You have beat me to it, Nistiman. I don't think that Litmus has spent much time in East LA, or he would know a drive-by when he sees it. It is really too bad that Tom is not capable of defending himself, but that is a mark of the drive-by.

For some, this case is very simple. They already have all the evidence they need and nothing that I will say on the matter will be worthwhile. On the other hand, especially since Semdinli, there have been a number of developments that, seen in the light of this murder, take on a new character. The research has already taken a good deal of my free time, but I suppose that Litmus will not be satisfied until I give up full-time work, which would better enable me to give instant answers to all questions of earth-shattering significance.

Let me make it clear for you, Litmus. Before you and your defendent bothered to comment here, I had already decided to write about this subject. If my writing is not quick enough for the two of you, you will have to find some way to overcome your frustration. If you want to use the excuse of "waiting until I like what I hear," that is fine with me. Unfortunately for that accusation, I am looking at events that have already occurred, therefore I am not waiting for anything.

What I do not understand is the intense interest in my opinion over this particular event. Of course, the demands for instant answers make me wonder what is the real agenda behind the demands.

Litmus said...

Of course, the demands for instant answers make me wonder what is the real agenda behind the demands.

har har har. Like I said, nothing inherent in commenting on the evidence right way prevents you from stating: "one shouldn't come to a conclusion, the evidence is inconclusive, and here's why: "

In fact, the reason why your remark--
If I had commented already, I would be accused of what I have already, correctly, accused others of doing, spreading lies, rumors and propaganda. --seems odd, is because commenting on it, presumably, is one way of dispelling rumors. The danger of rumors, after all, is the speed with which they spread.

Berxwedan said...


There are no "proofs" that the PKK killed Kani. What is the proof? Some name droppings and some ridicilious statements that are high on speculation.

Let's go through the "proof" that PWD puts forward through PWD claims that they have "wire taps" proving that the PKK has killed Kani. The "proof" pops up relatively fast, don't you think? A day after Kani gets killed, these guys get their hands on so-called "wire taps" which apparently already are filtered, analyzed and archived.

Not even the Turkish police was that fast to find, filter, analyze and evaluate the phone conversations made to and from Hikmet Fidan's phone and to and from the phones which made calls to Hikmet Fidan's phone. And when they did, it turned out that it was Fidan's friends that killed him! The case is in court now and they're all claiming that they were asked to "confess" by another PWD member who was calling from a police station in Diyarbekir.

Plus, I thought that all the cell phone companies who has switches and PBX's in southern Kurdistan were Turkish. Like Asyacell and Turkcell. (There is a third company called "Korek" which is Kurdish, but I don't know if they have an independent contract. If I'm not wrong, they had to negotiate with the Turkish companies to be able to operate in their own country.)

A link:

If there are wire taps, why don't they publish the transcripts in verbatim? They also have to tell us HOW they got the transcripts. They ALSO have to tell us WHY the ones "wire tapping" the alleged killers of Kani didn't inform PWD about the attack. If I'd be PWD, i'd be more worried of people/institutions/organizations withholding critical information from me which could lead to the death of my members. Is it really that easy to use ridicilous claims as evidence? It is if the receiver is totally stupid and susceptible.

Does any of these proof make sense?

And then we have the "bird perspective story" of how this "Veli Chat" gets in the car with Yilmaz and Tori, how they travel to this gas station, how Chat steps out and detonates the remote-controlled bomb inside Yilmaz and Tori's car when they're 700 meters away. Then this "bird perspective camera" follows Chat and proves that he has met with this HPG military intelligence agent.

Oh yeah? Who was the bird following them? Does anybody really know if the bomb was detonated 700 meters away? You may say, "well, Yilmaz and Tori's car was 700 meters away from the gas station". But you must realize that this is also an amateurish claim by someone with no knowledge of electronics or RF (radio frequency). Does anybody know how hard it is to send a clean signal to a receiver which is 700 meters away? They don't even know what type of explosives or RF-device was used. I would claim that Kani and Tori were followed by a car in order to control the blast and insure that the bomb goes off as planned. If somebody detonates a remote-controlled bomb from 700 meters away, then they're amateurish enough for anybody to catch them. They don't even know wether cell phones were used as senders/receivers. But they sure, suddenly, have WIRE TAPS, which is much harder to get than a list of WHICH phones called WHAT phone in THROUGH WHICH access points in the vicinity at that instant moment.

Give any diplomat or attaché (people who deal with such information) this type of report and he/she would laugh you in the face and throw the report out the window and fire you! Give it to a judge or prosecutor and you'd have the same laugh and you'd be ridiculed the rest of your career life (if the report wouldn't be the instant death to your career. Man, you wouldn't even pass in law school putting forward something like that.).

Does the "proof" make any more sense now?

I'm curious of why the PWD always is fast to blame the PKK. Blaming the PKK has not insured the security of their members, and their supporters have defended the finger pointing as "openness in order to deter". They think that they'll stay secure if they blame the PKK. Let's SUPPOSE that the PKK is guilty. Then why isn't PUK, KDP or even the US coalition forces in Iraq securing these people? Whoever is guilty, these people should've been secured by either the KRG or the US forces. The only logical explanation to why these people couldn't be secured is internal problems. You can secure someone from something in the outside, but you can't secure them from themselves.

And why in the hell are they blaming LEGAL institutions and parties? Can somebody explain what ROJ TV has to do with this murder? Can somebody explain why PCDK would risk their legality in Iraq, where for the VERY FIRST TIME an openly Apoist party have been able to join democratic elections? When they killed off Hikmet Fidan (and it became a real farse when it got out that it was Fidan's OWN FRIENDS that conspired and killed him), they blamed the legal party in Turkey/N.Kurdistan (DEHAP/DTP).

They claim that PKK is (by own choice) "isolating" themselves from the outside world by not joining the "democratic world". It's not PKK who is isolating themselves, but the anti-PKK Kurds who are spreading rumours and lies about the PKK.

They're so worried for PKK in a time where the LEAST damage to them would come from PKK. The Turkish Special Warfare Department is run by the Deputy Chief of the Turkish General Staff by hiearchy. (I've prepared some information about the JITEM and the organizational chart of the SWD [Special Warfare Department], and I will publish it later.) Who is the Deputy Chief of Staff in Turkey today? It's no one other than our famous Ilker Basbug. People commenting in this thread must certainly know Basbug. The ones who read this and don't know who Ilker Basbug is should not even be commenting here. The one before Basbug was Cevik Bir (he took over after Cörekci in 1995). Bir was deputy during Ocalan's capture in Kenya. When the Deputy Chief of Staff make a threatening statement, be sure that he is threatening with setting the SWD. And that happened. Why aren't they worried about that? Why don't they make any statements about that?

Someone wondered before in the Kurdmedia forums why the HPG guerrillas moved back to north, and I said that the reason was the SWD being re-emerged. Villagers were once again being killed, people forced being informers and the general 1984-1997 atmosphere was back with full force.

If you're a gazelle in the savanna, spending all your energy to run away from rhinos who are not your natural enemy, then don't blame the rhinos when the lions jump out from the grass and kill you.

PWD should take responsibility and protect their members. If they continue to look in the wrong direction, pointing fingers at innocent people, the true perpetrators will continue to kill them. Because Turkey already knows that whenever a PWD member gets killed, the PWD puts the blame on the PKK. The PWD's are easy partridges for the Turks now. Kill a PWD member and you'll get the blame on PKK for free. The only ones to blame is the PWD for not protecting their members and taking the harsh environment seriously. These people were supposed to be hardcore ARGK commanders and swift ERNK leaders. They were apparently not.

Hey Litmus! I think I remember you from the Kurdmedia forum. I don't remember your nick though, but I think most of us liked you. (Camera-guy from Istanbul, wasn't it?) Tom and Vladimir don't know much about the political dynamics in the Middle East. This whole thing is less than a hobby for them. It's something "oriental" and "exotic" to spend their free time with and nothing more. It's normal that they grab loose ends when they can't see where the thread is ending. I mean, look at Tom's claim that Cemil Bayik was sentenced to death in 2002 and that he ran away to Iran. And that there is a "death list" of "prominent" ex-PKK'ers which was a fabricated list and spread initially in Kurdish anti-PKK forums by someone named "Serhat". Even the owners of those forums made official statements stating that "Serhat" was most likely a MIT agent spreading fabrications. Even PSK made a similar statement. Now, how am I supposed to take the guy seriously? The guy is a romantic and loves exotic orientalism. I bet you he loved to wake up in the mornings to the "ezzan" in Istanbul laying cozy in his bed reaching out for a "lokum" laying in a box by his bedsidem carresing his stomach at the same time going "mmmm" while thinking how lucky he is enjoying his time as a vagabond in an exotic country instead of being in the dull and boring "Land of the Franks". Come on.. :)

But I think I understand what you mean though. It's not who the carrier is, but what they carry around that matters. Rumours is devastating if nobody dispells them. And if the carrier is "someone", I guess you can always try a "character assassination" to dry up the source for the carriers. Would that be a fair thing to do? Maybe, maybe not. In Tom's case, I just did one. Was it fair? Maybe, maybe not. I guess it depends on who opens the door you are banging on and how you are banging. For the rest of the carriers, any blog like this should do it. But the blog writers need time to research. I personally don't have much time, and I don't blog (not yet, maybe, maybe, maybe in the future, who knows?) So I guess, to be fair, one must give them time. Plus, when it comes to rumours within the Kurdish community, they usually backlash. I don't know why that happens, but Kurds (especially in northern Kurdistan/southeastern Turkey), have nowadays been very immune to anti-propaganda towards the PKK. I guess it in a way proves that PKK has won the heart and minds of the people. We of course have more problems in the diaspora, but that's why I believe that Kurds occassionaly need dissidents running away from the PKK. You see, the thing with dissident ex-PKK'ers is that they do everything except dissent. If they'd stick to simple dissent, they'd be more successful. Funny thing is, the PKK would've been more successful too, because pure dissent has always been more susceptible with the PKK. Pure dissent is a win-win situation. Lies, fabrications, speculations and gossip is not dissent and makes the so-called dissidents lose and the movement to slow down in development. (It, by the way, slows down the WHOLE movement and not only the PKK. Look at PSK. What level are they in?) It's like a group of scientists. If you have a theory, it needs criticism to develope. But if you try to ridicule the theory, when that particular theory in fact is the most successful, then you have one scientist working with and developing that theory in practic and the rest of the scientists putting all their energy on writing thesis to ridicule the theory and ignoring the pratical gains. If these scientists believe that a theory is faulty, then they should come up with their own theory and put it into practice in order to contradict that particular theory. That would force the criticized scientist to further develope their theories and work harder with the practics. Win-win situation. But here we have "scientists" (plural) blaming the other scientist (singular) for their failure, when it is clear that the "scientists" is a bunch of fuck-ups with no balls, courage or will.


You are allowed to use any information in this post in your blog. If you need more, send me an e-mail. It won't take you long to get hold of my e-mail.

By the way. Four Turkish tanks entered southern Kurdistan today (February 16.)

Litmus said...

This is the coffee shop talk I like. (besides the holier-than-thou take on westerners, which I don't particularly care for). It's point-counterpoint, cheeky, and maintains a criteria for falsifiability. Yes!

I think I remember you from the Kurdmedia forum

possible, but highly unlikely.

By the way, a Turkish court in Diyarbakir ruled that 11 PKK informants were part of JITEM. Thus apparently formally acknowledging the existence of such a unit for the first time in history.

berxwedan said...


>>I think I remember you from the Kurdmedia forum

>possible, but highly unlikely.

Sure, we'll say so.


I'm happy that you like the coffee shop talk.

I would not brand myself as holier than anyone. I've said and say the same thing to Kurds/Turks/Arabs/Persian or anybody else treating this issue as a weekend hobby or a current "trend" one has to follow to be "in". I guess I'm particularily ruthless to westerners due to the high amount of them approaching it with "orientalist romanticism". Like some fucking Lawrence of Arabia. My intolerance towards orientalists doesn't have anything to do with nationalism or "cultural nationalism". I just don't like them. (I don't like anthropologists either. I don't like my nation to be treated like an exotic animal kingdom.)

About the JITEM.

It's an interesting development isn't it? JITEM was apparently turned into "JIT" some time after the Susurluk incident. JIT's existence was made official much later (in July 2005 to be more precise) by the Turkish Grand National Assembly (for the other readers: the Turkish parliament, abbr. TBMM) when a paragraph was added to the "telephone wiretap laws". With this extra paragraph, the expression "Intelligence Chairmanship" was added to the "Gendarmerie Organization and Duties Law". But that JITEM had existed was never disclosed, until now. (JITEM = Jandarma Istihbarat ve Terörle Mucadele Dairesi, while JIT = Jandarma Istihbarat Teskilati.)

Another interesting development is that the Turkish state has decided to go after Yesil (Mahmut Yildirim). Now suddenly Yesil officially exists. I have the feeling that the Yesil operation will turn out just like the Hizbullah operation in Istanbul in 2000, killing the leader Huseyin Velioglu. That is, Yesil will be surrounded and orders will be given: Kill at any price, take no prisoners. Another key player, deeply involved in the dirtier conducts during the 1984-1999 war, killed and buried with all the secrets...

Vladimir said...

By the way. Four Turkish tanks entered southern Kurdistan today (February 16.)

Who said this? Dependent or independent news agency?

Vladimir said...

Ok.. I found it. Kurdishinfo..

Juanita said...

great post. I do not know if you are right or wrong, and by your standards I should not even be posting here, lol; but your post makes a lot of sense to me.

When I read the original article blaming the PKK I wondered as you did how they got the information so fast and why they just bought that story, "hook, line and sinker." There are clearly questions that need to be asked and answered here, before judgement calls are made. Good for you for pointing some of those questions out!

Mizgîn said...

Thanks for the confirmation, Berxwedan, of a great number of things.

arcan_dohuk said...

can somebody please confirm this tank story. why hasn't any news agency beside kurdishinfo covered the story? roj tv hasnt said anything,ktv nothing, kurdsat nothing. kurdishinfo posted a picture of some tanks going somewhere in a calllum.

arcan_dohuk said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
arcan_dohuk said...

the turks are quiet and i've checked alot of other news sites and found nothing. it usually takes about a day or so before others catch on so im going to wait before i believe anything.

arcan_dohuk said...

lets assume they did come in, it had to be by invitation. and the only person with that kind of power is barzani.

berxwedan said...


The "Basbug" comment was more of a hint. It means that you should read on him (as he is the current deputy chief of staff.) Turkey is a militaristic country where the soldier is holy and the "pasha's" (the Generals) are looked upon as Gods. The "pasha's" are still the ones that make the ultimate decision in politics. Policy making is totally in their hands. If Turkey's foreign minister Abdullah Gül makes a trip to a foreign country, he will make it with a briefcase filled with "advices" signed by the "pasha's". If Turkey really wants to emphasize something, they instead send a General to a foreign country. When dealing with Turkey, you MUST know the military leaders. Political leaders come and go, but the military leaders are part of the "unchanging State".


ANF reported it initially. The tanks moved in to the east of the Xabur port. Turkish army engineers have built a steel bridge over to southern Kurdistan close to the village of Gite in the Silopi province of northern Kurdistan.

You can sit and wait for "confirmation" as long as you want. You will never get it from AFP, Reuters or any south Kurdistani media outlets.

Yes, the tanks can only enter with the permission of Barzani, good observation.

(The Turks claim that it's part of a short military training maneuver, but observers on the SOUTHERN side have said that a buildup have been occuring close to the Gite village for over a week. Why do military training maneuvers close to the border? They're training "blietzkrieg" of course. That's why they also have engineers training "bridge building" in that area..)

To all:

9 people have died and 700 have been arrested in protests in eastern Kurdistan during the 7th anniversary of Ocalan's capture in Kenya. (I don't know if you will get any "confirmation" from your everyday media outlet about this either Arcan..)

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