Saturday, November 03, 2007


"May the prisoners' families not worry. If the prisoners are in the hands of HPG, which they are, they are in good hands."
~ Murat Karayılan.

DTP parliamentarians Aysel Tuğluk, Osman Özçelik, and Fatma Kurtulan have quietly gone off to Hewlêr to have talks with representatives of KDP and PUK, according to Özgür Gündem.

Expect them to return to Turkey with eight gifts from HPG for Erdoğan's visit to the US. DTP is expected to have a press statement upon receipt of the gifts.

By the way, just a reminder from someone "over there":

I asked him about the Kurds. He said, “They’re some of the toughest people I’ve ever seen. You don’t fuck with the Kurds; trust me you don’t want too. They’re well organized, and they will clear out an area.”

Damned straight.


Gordon Taylor said...


I read this too at O.Gundem, although very slowly, given my poor Turkce. I also saw the pictures of the demo at Silopi. Isn't it almost certain that these milletvekilliler are going to be arrested for consorting with a terrorist group? I mean, didn't that happen the last time some T. soldiers were turned over? You don't have to tell me how absurd it is; I'm just asking.

Renegade Eye said...

Did you read Condi Rice's statements, promising to help Turkey fighting the PKK? What a panderer.

This blog is a good one from Turkey.

hiwa said...

I still oppose it, poor move by PKK! and wose, they have been released without any conditions. Just as Saladin spared the Lion Heart...Kurds..aaarrgghh!

ge said...

I cant believe the PKK released the Turks. Why?!!! The Turks are still threatening and the confrontation is not over yet, so why the rush to hand them back?

What would have happened if Turkey had detained PKK members? They would have been treated brutally like this Greek Cypriot who recently died.

ge said...

Here is the link to the story of what happened to the person detained by Turks.

Janice said...

Wow, you called it right on the dot! I agree with my fellow posters in that I am a little surprised that they were than say during the meetings tomorrow. And no thank you to be heard...

Anonymous said...

I quote a pro-Kurdish commentator speaking from New York last week.

"The problem with the Kurds in Turkey, Syria and Iran is that they think that the US support their liberties like the Iraqi Kurds. I wish they would wake up and realise that this is not the case. Why would the US want a greater Kurdistan. No, they want to keep Kurdistan the way it is, it's much easier to control a mini state than it is a great state."

She kind of had a point. So I think it is good that the DTP are taking steps to use their politcs at a critical time. Because obviously the DTP need to find their feet and their politics in order to liberate Kurds in Turkey, because as the commentator said, perhaps the US really isn't interested in Turkish Kurds. Wouldn't be unheard of for the US to choose who they want to help for their own gain. So, it was a real missed opportunity when I saw that the Turkish media didn't put much emphasis on the involvement of the DTP, but then I guess things change slowly... VERY SLOWLY. But it is through politics and clever politics that something can change. And finally the DTP are back in parliament, and now have to negotiate their way through a sea of hurdles, but today they cleared one in my mind. There are many more to go of course.

Mizgîn said...

Gordon, yes, it's very possible that the DTP parliamentarians involved here will face prosecution. Of course, if they do, then the charge will be known. Since the Ankara regime has not admitted that the soldiers were prisoners of PKK, but were simply "lost," it will draw more attention to the fact that the AKP did not consider their own soldiers a priority.

But we shall have to see how it plays out.

Renegade, do you mean Condi "Chevron" Rice? Yes, I've seen her comments. BS, as usual. Did you see that she's been dining with the Axis of Evil?

Hiwa and GE, would you like to babysit Turkey's soldiers over the winter in the mountains? Remember, they have to be fed before you can eat. You have to make sure all their needs are met. You have to keep them safe if there are any operations. Do you want to give your life protecting them from a air strike? What do you do if something really serious happens to them? What if one of them dies in your custody? What would the reaction be, hmm?

Besides, most of the POWs were Kurds; why keep them?

If I were in the mountains, I would urge my higher-ups to get rid of them as soon as possible.

Practically speaking, it's best to cash them in while they're worth something. The entire world is paying attention, now's the time to show what kind of barbarians run the TC. That is what PKK has done.

GE, you are correct about what happens to those in the custody of the evil Turkish regime. Everyone who knows reality, knows this. Only those who've been hypnotized by their official state media think that the Ankara regime is run by civilized people.

Janice, my sources never lie. Early release should not be so surprising. Murat Karayilan said last weekend that the problem would not last long.

Anonymous, I don't agree with the commentator you mention, when she says that Kurds in Turkey think the US will come to their rescue. I don't know of any Kurds from Turkey who really believe that. I don't know who honestly believes that there's going to be a "Greater Kurdistan" at any time in the foreseeable future. It is obvious that South Kurdistan is glued to Baghdad. KCK has stated repeatedly that it is looking for a political solution within Turkey's borders. DTP is working for the same.

I am also happy that DTP was involved in the release today, but we shall see how long they last in parliament. It is the goal of the Turkish General Staff, and their minions in the Turkish parties, to reduce the number of DTPliler to under 20, the minimum needed to form a group. If the Ankara regime can get rid of DTP altogether, it will certainly do so.

Nothing has changed really.

hiwa said...

you know what Mizgin, you think I have not had members of my immediate family and rest hidden from Saddams security?

you think I didnt spend time hiding from them them? we were 6 boys, a sister and parents all hiding from them and WE made it!

South Kurdistan is NOT Hakkari, Qameshlo or Sina! please, that is not the reason, the POWs could have been kept in Basra or Najaf! please, if that is what your sources are saying...that is fine because they mean other things, if that is what Mizgin is saying...I think you should think again.

Those POWs should have died in an airstrike with guarillas, if the world believed it fine, if not damn with all of them. No one believes the Kurds anyways.

Anonymous said...

I think that AKP is sandwiched as all governing parties are between holding onto power and trying to solve the crisis. By Ankara regime I guess you mean chief-of-staff and the old secularist hawks. So Erodgan is sandwiched between the generals, the public (who are still influenced by the generals) and the old establishment of Ataturk faithfuls, which thankfully is a dwindling minority in the public but still hold powerful positions.

I'm very disappointed that after the July elections, with a huge mandate, Erodgan could have used this in a much more constructive way to forward this debate and find a political solution. Of course, this government is very pro-EU and it would have been a good commitment to those priniciples, but I think he's now trying to tame the military, and if Washington don't see this dimension which they might well not, as they are not the most intuitive bunch (Cheney and his boys). Well, it will sadly be a lost opportunity AGAIN for Turkey. Because Erodgan seems to have fallen into that nationalist politcal culture that dominates Turkey. I feel it has been a lost opportunity all round, I think the DTP have also not manouvered very well until this release of the soldiers. It seems a hopeless case again, which really is very very very sad indeed.

And this will give Turks (the public) another reason to look inwards as they see that the US doesn't care about them, their "stretgic partners"...

But we will have to wait and see...

Anonymous said...

just to add something... when I said Erdogan is trying to tame the military, I'd like to add, while coming up against the public - so trying to appeal to the public also by falling into that nationalist political culture...

Turkey is still missing a great leader! Who can use his power position in the here and now, and not the next election cycle.

ge said...

Mizgin--"Besides, most of the POWs were Kurds; why keep them?"

These are the very same soldiers who wouldnt hesitate pulling the trigger if you were caught in their cross-hairs. It is disheartening to see that so much was given up for nothing in return. perhaps this good will gesture will prevent a Turkish incursion, but i highly doubt this. The Turks do not, under any circumstance, want to see a thriving Kurdish community in this region.

Mizgîn said...

Hiwa, don't you think my family has şehids in the recent operations?

You should probably calm down and read Janice's comments so that you can understand what I said about sources.

And if no one believes Kurds anyway then what is the point of anything?

GE, are you implying that PKK should not follow Geneva Conventions or any other laws of land warfare? Are you suggesting PKK should act like Turks or like Americans, and simply disregard these laws?

Now you say nothing was received in return for these POWs but what makes you think anyone would have given anything for them? Do you think the Genelkurmay cares what happens to them? Genelkurmay never admitted they were in HPG hands so there was no guarantee there'd be anything coming in exchange for holding on to them forever.

Others suggested that international organizations should be involved with the handover, but what if they were too cowardly to get involved? Then what do you do?

Then, like I said before, you have to take care of them. They are a burden to a regular army and much more so for a guerrilla army. And then why did no one complain last week when Karayilan said the situation would be resolved quickly?

I have yet to hear anyone offer a realistic alternative to the course of action HPG has taken.

By the way, a Turkish invasion would be the best thing that could happen. That's why it won't happen.

Anonymous, Erdogan isn't sandwiched between anything. AKP is fully on board with the military and Gul's visit to the military in The Southeast in September is proof of that. Kind of odd how Turkish attacks really started to intensify after Gul's visit, don't you think? Or maybe not so odd.

AKP and the military are one when it comes to the Kurdish situation, and let's not forget that AKP is the same party that did nothing to repair Turkey's destruction of The Southeast prior to the end of the last unilateral ceasefire.