Saturday, October 25, 2008


"It was a year after Turkey's generals in 1993 formally banned the use of the Kurdish language altogether and launched one of the most ruthless repression campaigns in the Kurdish regions that the PKK seriously took up arms and systematically challenged these forces. It was the same year, that in the province of Van, I spotted a Turkish Major with my own eyes beating a 10-year-old boy in the street for speaking Kurdish. It was evident then, as it is now, that the PKK was destined to strengthen and expand, out of natural reaction if nothing else."
~ Ismet Imset.

Somebody tell me why they bother to have the Internet in Turkey at all. On Friday, Hürriyet reported that "The world's biggest blog site was closed down". "Youtube wasn't enough, now access to Blogger has also come under a ban."

The order to ban came from Diyarbakır's First "Criminal Court of Peace"--how's that for Newspeak--on 20 October. Hürriyet asks if shutting down websites is really a solution? Well, I guess those that are scared shitless think so.

Rastî's site statistics confirm the ban. The last visitors from Turkey were on early Friday morning, whereas in the last few weeks this site had been receiving around 30% of its visitors from all over Turkey.

Ahmet Türk's remarks earlier in the week, about Kurds suffering a political, social, and cultural genocide in the wake of the 12 September coup has caused an investigation to be started by a prosecutor in Diyarbakır.

By all means the regime should investigate Ahmet Türk's words. Absolutely! Yes, Mr. Prosecutor, you go and delve deeply into the results of the 12 September coup. Delve deeply into the events at Dıyarbakır Military Prison, the true birthplace of the PKK. Delve deeply into the gross human rights abuses committed by the American trained and sponsored contra-guerrillas. Let all the crimes against humanity by the current regime be fully exposed.

Then we'll compare notes and see if the regime's prosecutor comes to the same determination as Ismet Imset did in the 1990s:

Yet, another development in 1980, added to the overall history of repression of the Kurds, provided the true jus ad bellum the PKK required in order to use the overall Kurdish right to go to war. This was non other than the military coup in Turkey, supported by Washington, which gave not only the Kurds but also the Turks the unquestionable right to legitimately pursue any method of struggle against an illegitimate, foreign supported, military junta; its leaders and its forces.

Immediately prior to the take-over, several senior PKK leaders had predicted what was going to happen and in fear of persecution had escaped from the country like many other intellectuals.

By the morning of September 12, 1980, when tanks moved into capital Ankara and a nation-wide curfew was imposed by the junta, Turkey's martial law-based system had already banned most legal left-wing, radical Marxist activities as well as propaganda and had jailed thousands of Turks under the US-indoctrinated concept of "preventing the spread of Communism." Hundreds of Turks and Kurds were facing systematic torture sessions throughout the country as even school children at the age of 12 were being detained and promptly beaten to extract confessions -- incidents which have all been placed on the record.

With the military takeover though, the conditions for a "just cause" to launch a war for freedom and democracy if nothing else, were stronger than ever and the very fact that a group of generals, using their force and weaponry had ousted an elected civilian regime and abolished the country's constitution, spoke for itself in way of legitimacy for any form of resistance. The generals had taken over the country, closing down parliament, banning all political parties and placing their leaders, including the prime minister, under "protective custody."

A summary of that period was recently published in a Turkish news magazine and is highly important in the context of the PKK's own struggle and its reasons. It is, in reality, a full explanation of the immediate circumstances in which the organization launched its armed struggle and thus claimed that it was a legitimate one or a just war: Throughout the coup era in which the PKK launched its first organized operation in Turkish territory, a total of 650 thousand people were detained and most suspects were either beaten or tortured; over 500 people died while under detention as result of torture; 85,000 people were placed on trial mainly in relation to thought crimes or guilt by association; 1,683,000 people were officially listed in police files as suspects; 348 thousand Turks and Kurds were banned from traveling abroad; 15,509 people were fired from their jobs for political reasons; 114 thousand books were seized and burned; 937 films were banned; 2,729 writers, translators, journalists and actors were put on trials for expressing their opinions. One can hardly argue, as we enter the 21st century, that such a regime had any legitimacy other than to conform with the financial and political expectations of its foreign supporters.

Amir Hassanpour points to the assimilationist policies of the post-1980 coup regime, which have as their goal the destruction of the Kurdish identity:

The 1980 Coup d''etat Regime

The Turkish regime has made no secret of its intention to eliminate Kurdish ethnic distinction
(cf., e.g. van Bruinessen 1984; Nezan 1984; Helsinki Watch 1988). The suppression of manifestation of Kurdish, as well as Armenian or Greek, existence has been extended to such places as the Lufthansa airline office in Istanbul and the American Library in Ankara. An old globe, for example, carrying references to Kurdistan and Pontus had been used as part of a publicity photograph in the Istanbul Rotary Club magazine. This led to a demand of a three-year prison sentence for the company's Istanbul deputy manager (London Guardian, march 23, 1984). The Turkish embassies in Europe have regularly used diplomatic and other pressures to prevent the participation of Kurdish groups in cultural programs sponsored by European states. Similar pressure on the broadcast media has been documented.

Increased militarization and political control of the Kurdish provinces has been accompanied by new assimilation programs: "A general campaign to improve literacy in Turkish, and intensive Turkish-language courses were introduced in primary schools. Provicial commanders had their own programs to stamp out the use of Kurdish, at least in the towns. Traditional Kurdish clothes, which had reappeared in the 1970s, have been banned again" (van Bruinessen 1984: 12).

The armed resistence led by a leftist Kurdish political party, Partiya Karkerên Kurdistan (Kurdistan Workers Party), in the early 1980s has led to massive deployment of the army in the Kurdish provinces. To prevent the spread of the movement among the rural population, a project of setting up strategic hamlets is being carried out in the rural areas. (14) Another project is the resettlement of thousands of Turkish-speaking Kirghiz refugees from Afghanistan in Kurdistan. The government suggested that the area was chosen because of its similarity to the mountainous homeland of the refugees. Since there is no shortage of mountainous terrain in the Turkish-speaking regions, the real reason has more to do with Turkification of Kurdistan than considerations of landscape (de Manuelian 1986).

Interpreting the crime of genocide as it's written in international law includes the following ideas:

The crime of genocide has two elements: intent and action. “Intentional” means purposeful. Intent can be proven directly from statements or orders. But more often, it must be inferred from a systematic pattern of coordinated acts.

Intent is different from motive. Whatever may be the motive for the crime (land expropriation, national security, territorrial integrity, etc.), if the perpetrators commit acts intended to destroy a group, even part of a group, it is genocide.

The phrase "in whole or in part" is important. Perpetrators need not intend to destroy the entire group. Destruction of only part of a group (such as its educated members, or members living in one region) is also genocide. Most authorities require intent to destroy a substantial number of group members – mass murder. But an individual criminal may be guilty of genocide even if he kills only one person, so long as he knew he was participating in a larger plan to destroy the group.

Ahmet Türk is absolutely correct. There has been a genocide campaign against the Kurdish people, especially since the 12 September coup. Nothing has changed.

After Katil Erdoğan's disastrous visit to Turkey's internal colony Kurdistan last week, he had some comments:

The use of children in recent activities involving the Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK) demonstrates the [ ] group's ignorance and ferocity, Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan has said.

I may be the only one who remembers what Katil Erdoğan said during the Amed Serhildan:

"Security forces will intervene with every possible means indiscriminately, including against women and children."

And so the ignorant and ferocious killed ten during the serhildan, including five children, and imprisoned over 100 children.

Sayın Başbakan, no one is as ignorant or ferocious as you.


Anonymous said...

I have always wished for a group or website that- with the help of lawyers, scholars, and other experts in international law-would skillfully make the case for the culpability of the Turkish military in genocide against the Kurdish citizens of Turkey(actually I would leave it to the scholars to decide who is actually guilty under international law, i.e. gov. or military or specific people, etc.).

You have written a lot about this on your website, so I thought I would volunteer you for the job of starting another website, and organizing the people necessary, to bring a case(maybe to the EU court of human rights?) against the propagators of this genocide.
Thanks always for your writings,

Anonymous said...

It is absolutely clear that Turkey has been committing genocide in an ongoing manner against Kurds since at least 1924 in a cultural and physical manner - Turkey, indeed, is still in breach of at least 2 articles of the United Nations' Genocide Convention. Extensive documented evidence for this exists - It appears, for example, amongst many other sources, in the following texts of mine:

1)'Kurds in Turkey and in (Iraqi) Kurdistan - A Comparison of Kurdish Educational Language Policy in Two Situations of Occupation' (co-authored by Tove Skutnabb-Kangas). This appears in the current edition of the official journal of the International Association of Genocide Scholars, Genocide Studies and Prevention, Vol. 3(1), p. 43-74.

2) 'The Kurdish Genocide in Turkey, 1924-98', Armenian Forum, No 4, 1999, p. 57-107.

3) The 2007 book 'The Kurdish and Armenian Genocides: From Censorship and Denial to Recognition?' (Stockholm, Apec)

4) The 1,000 page plus book (out in November 2008): 'The Armenian, Chaldean-Assyrian, Greek, Kurdish and Greek Cypriot Genocides and the Politics of Denialism' (Apec, Stockholm)

5) The book 'US, UK, German, Israeli and NATO Inspired Psychological Warfare Operations Against the "Kurdish Threat" in Turkey and Northern Iraq (South Kurdistan)' (Apec, Stockholm, forthcoming - February 2009)

6) The book 'Colonial Genocides in Turkey, Goa and Kenya' (Apec, Stockholm, forthcoming - March 2009)

7)The book 'The Kurdish Genocide in Turkey' (Apec, Stockholm - forthcoming, 2009 - Over 3,000 pages long).

When journalists such as ARDAN ZENTÜRK, from Star (as reported in Turkish Daily News - seek to state that: Ahmet Turk's use of the term genocide to highlight the targeting of Kurds "is the ultimate exploitation of the concept!", they are either unaware of the facts of the matter or are consciously or otherwise repeating the Turkish state's bankrupt denialist stance with regard to the Kurdish, Armenian, Assyrian, Greek, Greek Cypriot and "Other" genocides that have taken place.

Ahmet Turk is only the latest of many courageous people in Turkey who have had the courage to name the crime for what it is: GENOCIDE! Others who have done so include Ismail Besikci and Musa Anter. Tens of other respected international analysts and scholars and organisations have also used the term, as I and others have documented - Desmond Fernandes.

Anonymous said...

I agree absolutely, and thank you for the references.
What I want is recognition by means of a case against Turkey in the EU court of human rights (Although I don't know much about international law so maybe there is something better?).
In this way international recognition can be achieved.
I want all of the scholars and organizations you listed to come together to make a case against Turkey that can be sucessfully prosecuted.

Anonymous said...

To the previous person making the comment:

"What I want is recognition by means of a case against Turkey in the EU court of human rights (Although I don't know much about international law so maybe there is something better?).
In this way international recognition can be achieved.
I want all of the scholars and organizations you listed to come together to make a case against Turkey that can be sucessfully prosecuted".

It's interesting you say this. This is what Ocalan attempted before his 'abduction'. He wanted and tried [no pun intended] desperately - at the Hague and elsewhere - to have himself and the PKK tried at an INTERNATIONAL COURT ALONGSIDE the Turkish state to enable international public opinion to make up their own minds once the Kurdish case was presented - using legal and scholarly and human rights linked documentation.

He believed international recognition would happen this way - by having the information openly presented at an international European Court, if a fair trial could take place in this context as he knew one in Turkey would and could only result in a show trial (which is what happened).

This was a significant move that was actively frustrated by the US and other NATO linked agencies and circles. They even ensured that his flight could not enter airspace to fly to the Hague to proceed with this request and initiative. Other similar actions have been used for years to ensure that such initiatives of the kind advocated by Ocalan in 1998/1999 [and even before that, and after that] aren't even considered or THOUGHT of. That's how many US-NATO linked psychological warfare operations have functioned - to acheive these ends.

Ocalan's initiative was a significant one - and this is discussed in my new book - where I have also documented the 'international covert initiatives' that were undertaken to stop this ever happening, all done outside of the public gaze of course, and all aimed at securing his abduction and trial in Turkey, where no such possibility of raising this issue meaningfully could take place. And the mainstream media have generally sidestepped this key question and issue you raise. So I'm glad you raised it.

There are deep political circles out there who don't want people to even consider this type of initiative - an international court or trial considering and weighing all the evidence for or against Turkey (and by implication, the US-UK-NATO who have been complicit in facilitating the crime, as many see it, of genocide against Kurds. Remember here that complicity is equally a most serious crime that should be investigated, judged and acted upon, according to the 1948 Genocide Convention. So the US-UK governments and NATO stand to be judged, if such a trial ever took place. Which is why of course so much is being done to ensure it never happens. Saddam was conveniently executed before such an international trial could judge the complicity of the US-UK governments and others in facilitating the genocide of Kurds in Iraq/South Kurdistan).

The big problem of course is ensuring that a fair trial highlighting and examining these issues can take place. The Milosevic trial shows that that's unlikely to happen, given the power of the US - directly and/or indirectly - to control the nature and course of trials [and there are books out there that document the manner in which that trial was conducted in a highly irregular fashion].

As I have elsewhere documented, conscious actions have already been undertaken to check to ensure that Turkey and Israel [re: the targeting of Palestinians] cannot be judged before the International Criminal Court. Irrespective of any strength of evidence against them. I don't think many people appreciate this: Have you seen it debated in the mainstream media as a scandalous situation? And how possible are things going (or not going) to be with the US and UK being joined at the Security Council by Turkey (between 2009-2010?)? Are they going to facilitate or frustrate (, surely not?) any such international legal initiatives of the kind you ask for? Where is all of this being seriously considered in the mainstream press in the US-UK?

As for the EU, my investigations found that the main EU body liaising with Turkey on matters to address over EU-Turkey's accession, NEVER RAISED or sought to discuss or even consider raising or investigating that issue with the Turkish authorities - ie. the 'Question' of the 'genocide' of Kurds, with Turkey. Imagine that. Even though Article 19, other organisations and leading scholars and lawyers - and Kurdish parties - had for some time categorically stated that they consider[ed] genocide to have taken place. My investigations show that such a 'Question regarding genocide' was never raised. It's something which is troubling. More than 'troubling'. Yet, is it an issue that has been addressed by the mainstream US-UK press? - Desmond Fernandes

Anonymous said...

Thank you for your comments,
I was happy to hear that there had been some antecedent for this, although I was surprised to learn it was Ocalan himself attempting it.
Do you know if anyone is working on such a case now?

Anonymous said...

To the earlier reader: Re: "Do you know if anyone is working on such a case now?"

The legal, 'academic' and moral case "for" - i.e. making the charge of 'genocide' - appears in two books of mine (listed earlier) that are in press as we speak. The subject matter of one of the books was recently discussed and debated at a meeting at the House of Commons (in July 2008)and later, at the Centre for Contemporary Arts in Glasgow. Hopefully, lawyers and other organisations will find them of use in their work on the matter.

I also, as with others, sought to report on the validity of the 'case' of a Kurdish genocide in Turkey at a meeting in the House of Commons last year to discuss and debate the findings of my last book [which refer to the Kurdish, Armenian, Greek, Assyrian and 'Other' genocides]. You may find some of the points raised at that meeting [and in that book] of related interest to what is currently being discussed and reflected upon here[Excerpts below - the full report can be accessed at:] - Regards, Desmond Fernandes.
The London launch of Desmond Fernandes’ book, The Kurdish and Armenian Genocides: From Censorship and Denial to Recognition?, took place in the House of Lords, Committee Room 3, on 12th March 2008, at 6.15pm.

Organised jointly by The Kurdish Student and Academic Association (KSAF), Nor Serount Cultural Association, Armenia Solidarity, WeKurd, the Art and Science Education Group, the Youth Collective and the Kurdish Federation in the UK (FEDBIR), the event was sponsored and chaired by Lord Rea.

Messages of support were sent by Professor Noam Chomsky, Rosie Malek-Yonan (the Assyrian classically trained pianist, composer, actress, director, writer, documentary filmmaker and author of The Crimson Field), Muhammad Idrees Ahmad (from Spinwatch), Jean Lambert (Green MEP for London) and Nicholas Hildyard (policy analyst).

For Professor Noam Chomsky: “Fernandes has unearthed a remarkable treasure of surprising, often shocking, and most valuable information about Turkey and the Kurds, and about the crucial role of outside powers, notably the US , in facilitating major crimes. His revelations should be carefully pondered, along with the lessons we should draw from them”.

To Nicholas Hildyard: “This book is years overdue. For too long, the question of whether or not the repression directed against the Kurds amounts to genocide has been the elephant in the room in discussions on the ‘Kurdish question’. Desmond's book is meticulous in its research and courageous in its approach: he has not flinched at asking the difficult questions, even where they lead to uncomfortable conclusions ... Whether or not one agrees with his conclusions, open discussion of what lies behind the decades long repression of the Kurds is critical if a long-term resolution of the Kurdish issue is to be achieved”.

Muhammad Idrees Ahmad: "...Fernandes has rendered invaluable service in revealing the interlocking interests of various pressure groups and the network of think-tanks through which they have come to dominate the policy process in the United States. His investigation of the nexus between the military-industrial complex and the Israel lobby, and its impact on the Kurdish question also has implications for the wider Middle East ...”

... Desmond noted the way in which the book was dedicated to the late Musa Anter (the Kurdish writer and intellectual - who was assassinated by Turkish state 'inspired' death squads - who explicitly referred to the Kurdish genocide as “genocide”) and the courageous and inspirational publisher and human rights activist, the late Ayse Zarakolu. He was honoured by the presence of Ragip Zarakolu (husband of Ayse, Chair of Writers in Exile – International PEN: Turkey Branch, and member of the International Committee – Freedom to Publish and the International Publishers Association), who specially flew from Turkey for the event.

Desmond noted the manner in which, “even now, in North West Kurdistan (South East Turkey) and South Kurdistan (Northern Iraq) and Turkey as a whole, terrible things are happening. The Turkish government, as I and others such as Tove Skutnabb-Kangas show, is currently in breach of two articles of the United Nations’ Genocide Convention.

"It is still conducting a cultural genocide of Armenians and Kurds. The crime, legacy and human impact of genocide needs to be urgently recognised and addressed. The book recognises the Armenian, Assyrian, Greek, Kurdish and other genocides, and examines policies of genocide denialism.

"As I show, the record of the US, UK, Israeli governments, and NATO, has really been shameful in all of this, alongside that of successive Turkish governments and a number of lobbying groups pursuing their own cynical economic and geopolitical agendas. The above have been complicit in assisting the Turkish state with its genocidal and/or genocide denialist actions. And as Articles 3b and 3e of the 1948 UN Genocide Convention make clear, 'conspiracy to commit genocide' and 'complicity in genocide' are international crimes. Article 4 of the Genocide Convention states that: 'Persons committing genocide or any of the other acts enumerated in Article 3' – i.e. relating to ‘conspiracy to commit genocide' and/or 'complicity in genocide' - 'shall be punished, whether they are constitutionally responsible rulers, public officials or private individuals'”.

Desmond further clarified that many writers and human rights activists and academics – such as Ismail Besikci – have been criminalised, even as others have been murdered, for courageously and publicly exposing these issues. He paid all of the above his deepest respect, even as he expressed his opposition to those ideologies driving and 'inspiring' such targeting actions.

Ragip Zarakolu's moving speech emphasised the way in which people who raise these topics in Turkey continue to be, scandalously, criminalised ...

To Khatchatur [Pilikian], an artist, musician, writer and author of 'The Spectre of Genocide as Collateral Damage is Haunting the World' and 'UNESCO Laureates: Nazim Hikmet & Aram Khatchaturian', and director of the 1970's programme 'HARC: The Heritage of Armenian Culture': "Desmond Fernandes speaks of the state total terror inflicted upon two ancient peoples of Anatolia, Armenians and Kurds ... first as an Empire - Ottoman - then as a Republic of Turkey. His book is a testimony that those two peoples, and others ... are not only thinking for themselves but are still continuing their struggle to prevent the 'draining of the spiritual resources of mankind'. Fernandes’ work also illustrates what the Permanent Peoples’ Tribunal thus declared: '...To uncover and expose the genocidal reality makes it somewhat harder for those with motives of cover up to maintain their position. By validating the grievances of the victims, the Tribunal contributes to the dignity of their suffering and lends support to their continuing struggle. Indeed, acknowledging genocide itself is a fundamental means of struggling against genocide [and is] an affirmation of the right of a people under international law to a safeguarded existence'”.

To Ben Hayes, from Statewatch: "Reading Desmond’s book reminded me of another, the book that had the single greatest influence on my critical faculties and perhaps even my choice of career: Modernity and the Holocaust by Zygmunt Bauman. Some of you may be familiar with it. Bauman’s central thesis is that while the Nazis were a genocidal regime – albeit one that first used democracy to destroy democracy – many of the factors that made the Holocaust possible are characteristics of all modern states ...

"Reading Des Fernandes’ book, it struck me not just how right Bauman was, but how the world continues to grow more and more hypocritical and unjust with every passing year. What sort of a Europe is it that condemns the denial of one genocide, only to facilitate the denial of another?

"We have not merely failed to learn the lessons of the holocaust, as Des Fernandes and others have shown, we have turned the other cheek while our friends – the states of Turkey and Israel included – have committed and continue to commit appalling atrocities in the name of the 'Fatherland', the 'promised land', and, in the 21st century, 'homeland security'.

"The Kurds are victims of Empire, of Turkish state repression, and now - like all struggles for self-determination with a few notable geo-strategic exceptions - they are victims of the global 'war on terror'. International human rights law, the crowning glory of human civilisation”, he observed, “is supposed to ensure solidarity, support and protection for victims of state repression. And anyone who reads this book cannot fail to be moved to share in that solidarity.

"But under the 'war on terror', international law and the terrorist lists in particular now mean that the international community’s solidarity is with the oppressor, while public solidarity with the victims is being steadily criminalised ... I hope that Des Fernandes’ book can make the same contribution to debates about Britain’s shameful foreign policy as it does to giving a desperately needed voice to Kurdish and Armenian victims of crimes against humanity ... I think it was Orwell who said that: 'In times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act', and so it is for the voices in this book".

Gurgîn Bakircioglu, Vice Chair of the Kurdish Student and Academic Association and Editor of, noted in his presentation that "the Turkish State remains on a mission of conquest while it continuously resists discussing and evaluating its past. These acts of denial are precisely why laws such as Article 301 of the Turkish penal code exist; for the sole purpose of denying people the right to criticize the present or even the past.

"The controversial and blurred article that the Turkish regime has created serves three purposes: Denial, of the past; Extermination, of today; and Prevention, of perceived future problems for the power of the State. So, the past is fabricated, the present is opposed and the future is protected from the people.

"There are many problems inside Turkey that should have been solved a long time ago; instead of solving them, threats from outside Turkey have been created so that the people would look away. These are the problems and conflicts inside Turkey that still are not solved: the institutionalised denial of the Armenian Genocide; the Kurdish oppression and as Desmond describes it, the Cultural Genocide of the Kurds; the Alevi question; the military power over the civilian authority. And the list goes on …

"I do not know if any of you remember or took notice of when the Turkish Prime Minister Erdogan in 2004, stated in Washington , 'I am against Kurdish self-rule, even if it were in Argentina'. These statements are iconic of Turkey ’s policy of attempting to wipe out the Kurdish identity by eliminating any possibility of a Kurdish state. As it is said in Kurdish: 'Zimane me hebuna me ye'. Our language is our existence".

tum said...

"Ahmet Türk's remarks earlier in the week, about Kurds suffering a political, social, and cultural genocide in the wake of the 12 September coup..."

I think this does not reflect what he actually said, even though it might seem like it does.

What he said was: "the coup of 1980 has resulted in a political, social and cultural genocide for both Kurds and the whole of Turkey"

Wouldn't want to sound like an etymology geek, but the subject of his remarks was the "coup" not "Kurds", which is a key point. There have been many treatments of Turkey which were carried out to its citizens from every political, racial, religious background, that were/are questionable.

Even though the word was intentionally selected, it was still used as figure of speech (thus came the paraphrasing of 27 October: "Fiziki soykırımı kastetmedim")

@previous comments: If the majority of Kurds' demand is the fully exercise of their democratic rights (I remember Mizgin stating this, either for her individual point of view or as a reflection of the majority) rather than the formation of an independent state, then it should be a certain mindset that people need to oppose to and I can't see how a prosecution on the basis of genocide could help this - all it can serve is fulfillment of avenge and rise of tension.

I really do wonder if the Kurds' preferred choice would be to exercise their democratic rights fully within the boundaries of Turkey or the formation of an independent state.

Mizgîn said...

Agreed on the comments that Ocalan was attempting to have the situation tried in an international court prior to his "abduction" by the US and Mossad.

Of course, the issue of the genocide of the Kurdish people goes back to the very founding of the Turkish Republic.

Tum, Ahmet Turk is correct, the coup was a disaster for all of Turkey and it is a point that Ismet Imset also makes. But Imset focuses on the Kurdish situation, the PKK in particular, as I do here.

Of course, Ahmet Turk can only say so much given the attitude and history of the regime.

His position is also the position of PKK because it has stated repeatedly that it fights not only for the Kurdish people, but for all of Turkey as well. This is why Turks have joined PKK from the beginning.

You can wonder about your "separatism" problem all you want; PKK has clearly stated what its goals are, and those goals are to be accomplished within the borders of Turkey:

"The Turkish state instead of executing an anti Kurdish Freedom Movement diplomatic relations, and giving concessions after concessions, should listen to the calls of the Kurdish people and its Leadership, the issue is the condition where it can be resolved in a shorter period. Because the project that we have developed contains the most reasonable conditions, it expresses the interests of both sides. In reality if the denial, annihilation and chauvinistic outlook are put to one side it will be seen that this solution benefits the interests of Turkey.

[ . . . ]

"We would like as a movement to emphasize once again that the right solution is a democratic autonomy within the borders of Turkey. We believe that a solution in the unity of Turkey will be for the benefit of firstly the Kurdish people and all the people of the region."

Desmond, if you are interested in more information on the conduct of contra-guerrillas in general, and where the idea originated, you might like to listen to a radio interview about the Phoenix Program and CIA black propaganda here.

tum said...

Turks were in the region for armed resistence before PKK was founded anyways.
Re “You can wonder about your "separatism" problem all you want; PKK has clearly stated what its goals are“ : My wonder is independent of what has been stated and I don’t have a separatism problem at all btw. I just happen to wonder whether the Kurds’ (as individuals) preferred choice would be in line with their current political stand or not. Anyways, what I wonder is insignificant; my point of focus was regarding to the previous comments: I cannot see how an international prosecution on the grounds of genocide perpetration can help resolve the issue. It would only feed hatred, push the ultranationalistic movement even further and would waste the time and effort of many people for nothing.
@Mizgin, Re: Ocalan attempting to have the situation tried in an international court… Was his attempt to have the situation tried for the crime of genocide or other war crimes?

Cum-hurry-ed said...

EU court of human rights doesn't work that way. I doubt they would accept your case. It's more meant for 'failed' court cases in EU council member states.

hamo said...

I guess a decent web site where free of Turkish States Threats would be a starting point for pursuing a case against the Turkey's genocide against the Kurdish Nation. There are hundreds of websites regarding the genocide against the Armenians, Greek and the Assyrians by the Turkish State but none for the genocide against the Kurds which even continues heavily today.

Kurdish People's Leader Abdullah Ocalan called EU court from his POW to see the big picture of Turkish attitude against the Kurds and ask them to condemn criminal acts instead of referring one case at a time without open clear condemnation. Mr Ocalan pointed out open condemnation may result Turkish State to realise it's mistakes and save future Kurdish suffering instead of charging money to the state for crimes has committed which clearly proven is not deterrent.

hamo said...

I guess a decent web site where free of Turkish States Threats would be a starting point for pursuing a case against the Turkey's genocide against the Kurdish Nation. There are hundreds of websites regarding the genocide against the Armenians, Greek and the Assyrians by the Turkish State but none for the genocide against the Kurds which even continues heavily today.

Kurdish People's Leader Abdullah Ocalan called EU court from his POW to see the big picture of Turkish attitude against the Kurds and ask them to condemn criminal acts instead of referring one case at a time without open clear condemnation. Mr Ocalan pointed out open condemnation may result Turkish State to realise it's mistakes and save future Kurdish suffering instead of charging money to the state for crimes has committed which clearly proven is not deterrent.

Turkish E.T. said...

"...It would only feed hatred, push the ultranationalistic movement even further and would waste the time and effort of many people for nothing..."

Tum, incase you haven't been reading Mizgin for a while you'll understand that this is an ultranationalistic blog and lies and senseless accusations flow like any tabloid.

The goal of this blog and others is not to bring an intellectual outlook or an understanding to the kurdish problem but rather feed this hatred against Turks.

That is why it relies on mere words, concrete concepts so much, pushing them into brains:
"police state" , "genocide" , "fascists" ,

there is no communication here. only broadcast. it's propaganda. :)

about the kurdish opinion on an independent land, check the comments of this post:

tum said...

Will you not answer Mizgin?