Sunday, October 05, 2008


"A democratic environment must be created for the Kurdish citizens of this country, so that they feel secure and free; and where also the youth in the mountains must return to their homes."
~ Ahmet Altan.

There has been another major HPG operation against the Bezele garrison, the same garrison that was targeted in May. The Ankara regime is in shock, although it is not announcing to the public just how bad the situation really is; it admits only fifteen Turkish soldiers killed while the body count is actually much worse. The regime is also lying about the number of HPG guerrillas killed, as it did in December 2007.

Note that as of 1400 hours Pacific time, the websites for Roj TV and Özgür Gündem, are not available. Only the Fırat News site and Yeni Özgür Politika are working, although YOP is quite slow. From Fırat News, we have the HPG statement on the operation(copy-amd-paste this link:

The details of the Bezele garrison operation are revealed

The details of the Bezele garrison operation in Şemdinli were revealed. HPG announced that in this operation 62 soldiers were killed and 32 wounded. During the operation, nine HPG guerrillas lost their lives while a number of arms were confiscated. The operation was video recorded by guerrilla forces.

The statement from HPG-BİM is as follows:

"On 3 October 2008, an operation was implemented by our guerrilla forces against the TSK, which began an operation from Bezele garrison of Şemzinan district of Hakkari. Simultaneously, an attack by our guerrilla forces was initiated against three hills belonging to the Bezele garrison.

"The very intense operation against the three hills began at 1300 hours and lasted until 1700 hours. Meanwhile the Bezele garrison was fired upon with heavy weapons. After the intense and severe conflict, the three hills belonging to the enemy were destroyed and finally captured by our guerrilla forces.

"On the first hill, 25 soldiers were killed and on the second, 27 soldiers were killed, among whom was a second lieutenant; on the third hill, 10 soldiers were killed. During the operation, which lasted until noon on 4 October, most of Bezele was destroyed and sixty-two soldiers were killed, among whom were several high-ranking officers. In addition, in this conflict, more than 30 soldiers from TSK were wounded. Within the garrison and outside, there were several unidentified [TSK] casualties."

One Cobra helicopter damaged

"Turkish army aircraft lost the initiative within the clash and even bombed the garrison's hills [where TSK personnel were located; they bombed themselves].

Additionally, a Cobra-type helicopter, which came to the scene, was damaged by our guerrilla forces. The damaged Cobra needed to leave the area immediately."

9 guerrillas lost their lives

"In these clashes, nine of our comrades fought heroically and reached martyrdom. The identitites of these comrades will be announced later on."

15 HK33 assault rifles confiscated

"In the clashes, 15 HK33 assault rifles, several night vision binoculars, [military] devices, and military equipment were confiscated. On the hills that were destroyed, a number of both heavy and light weapons were destroyed by our guerrilla forces."

The operation was videotaped

"This operation and clashes were recorded by our guerrilla forces.

"After the clashes on 4 and 5 October, TSK's aircraft and artillery bombed Basya valley and its peripheries."

Congratulations for our guerrilla forces are definitely in order, along with condolences for the loss of nine comrades.

In other news, the Turkish General Staff has decided to relocate five garrisons and the Bezele garrison will move to a nearby hill, Berçar Tepe, although the general staff claims that plans to move the Bezele garrison were in the works last year.

I find this very difficult to believe and, most likely, it's a cover story for the paşas. They don't want to have to disclose who it was that, in their utter stupidity, chose the location for the Bezele garrison. Given that it's located on low ground and completely surrounded by much higher terrain, attacking the garrison is like shooting fish in a barrel. HPG has been very smart to exploit the weakness inherent in the location of the Bezele garrison.

One would think that the positions on the surrounding hills would provide enough view of the various avenues of approach that there would be plenty of warning time to provide cover fire to the garrison.

Obviously, this has not worked at all, so one has to wonder why? Were the soldiers stationed there properly trained? Probably not. Did they have sufficient weapons? Questions arose about that subject during the censored Dağlica investigation last year. Again, the answer is probably not. Were the soldiers awake and at their posts? Your guess is as good as mine; however, don't expect these questions or others like them to be discussed too much in Turkish media.

Ahmet Altan is the first on the charge to demand accountability for the TSK fiasco at Bezele, noting that the paşas are the only ones benefiting from this 30-year war while both Kurdish and Turkish youths are dying. He also notes that TSK censored all media questioning, according to a court order, about last year's Dağlıca raid. An accountability of TSK's failure by the media was also avoided through paşas-initiated censorship in May 2008, when another successful HPG operation was conducted against the Bezele garrison. Altan raises questions of responsibility for these failures, and others that have occurred in the last thirty years:

Who is failing?

Who can it be other than the commanders?

Look, there is something odd here. The people who cannot protect these kids, do not take sufficient precautions, do not give any accounting of their faults, and do not complete what is lacking, are the commanders . . .

At the same time, they are the ones who most want the continuation of the war.

They object to any democratic and peaceful step which will end this war.

Altan's bluntly-worded main point today is "Finish this god-damned war":

Because no one can win this war.

A democratic environment must be created for the Kurdish citizens of this country, so that they feel secure and free; and where also the youth in the mountains must return to their homes.

PKK offered a democratic and peaceful solution in August 2008, and it's still available (copy-and-paste because it, too, is censored:, but so far has been rejected by the ruling Islamist AKP and their boys in the Turkish General Staff. As Ahmet Altan said, "They object to any democratic and peaceful step which will end this war."

On the other hand, at this point, it looks like Turks prefer to blindly give their lives for paşas and politicians who don't give a fat shit about the dead because they're too busy enjoying the power and wealth that comes with the perpetuation of war.

It's very generous of the Turkish people to waste their lives so that the minority in the ruling oligarchy get to enjoy theirs. Very generous, indeed.


Anonymous said...

Good job by the guerillas but we are all very sad for the nine comrades. I hope more lessens learned for the next target...

This is the live mobile phone coverage of the attack by a nearby villager. Converstaion is in Kurdish with Turkish subtitles. This Kurd who is taking the film seems to be pro-turkish Kurd (possibly a village guard) but his comments show the true nature of the atack. He suggest the turks to move these Besele garnison to capital ankara. He commnets about the high smoke and major fire around and in the garnison.

Mizgîn said...

"Dear Mr. Prime Minister, you better move this garrison to Ankara!"

This guy is hilarious! I saw this on Youtube earlier. He doesn't sound pro-Turkish but I think he's only semi-literate, if that. He's probably a local villager, maybe a shepherd, but he's not necessarily pro-regime.

I agree with him; Katil Erdogan needs to move the garrison to Ankara.

Azadîxwaz said...

Where he says "sadece" is really funny actually!

And I also agree with both of you that they should move all of their shit to their "beautiful" capital Ankara!

As long as they leave us alone, they can take it wherever the hell they deem proper in their boundaries!

On Taraf there was a very good article that I translated Mizgîn. I think it sums up the lynchings that are happening on the Western parts of Turkey well.


Kristiina Koivunen said...

Is there any information about the public reactions in Turkey? There is big danger that the anger of Turkish nationalists (and ordinary people brainwashed by them) turns against Kurdish civilians. I read somewhere that there has already been anti-Kurdish demonstrations in many Turkish towns.

Gordon Taylor said...

Thanks for the update. As of 23:35 hours Pacific time gundemonline is still unavailable.

What incredible incompetence. And of course you're right: the pashas don't want this to end.

Anonymous said...


Isn't it true that eventually the hawks of the PKK who feed on bloodshed and the armed or civilian hawks who regard everything as permissible to prevent the country from becoming fully democratic lend each other support during hard times? Is there anybody who does not still know that the PKK needs our hawks and vice versa?

Otherwise, how can we understand the negligent acts that are synonymous with treason? If you look more deeply into the attack on the Aktütün military outpost alone, you will understand what I'm talking about. Imagine a military outpost that has suffered four attacks by the PKK, killing 44 soldiers, and no one has bothered themselves about its insecure location or patchy buildings. Isn't this treason-like negligence?

Turkish E.T. said...

the link sent from is interesting. the framework steps. I don't understand why 16 or more soldiers had to die for these steps, which are actually already done in Turkey.

it's very confusing. I mean the steps that KKK offers include stuff like "...firstly being those of gender discrimination..."

what does gender discrimination in Turkey has to do with the kurdish issue?? if anything Kurdish clans should first try and stop honor killings.

and they call for "disarmament" of both armies... why is Turkish army disarming when it's neighboring iran, iraq, syria??

I really doubt the maturity of the entire PKK supporters and commenters on this blog. it's like bunch of kids with rifles making up their own rules just so they can play with the rifle a bit more. Complete anarchist nonsense.

Turkish E.T. said...
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Turkish E.T. said...

"....There is big danger that the anger of Turkish nationalists (and ordinary people brainwashed by them) turns against Kurdish civilians. I read somewhere that there has already been anti-Kurdish demonstrations in many Turkish towns..."

yes I read about this here. Basically in Altınova a Turk listens to music loudly in his car infront of a building. Kurdish residents ask him not to. there is some form of discussion... than a kurd drives a truck on this crowd injuring 6 killing 1. then turkish crowd gathers and breaks the glasses of kurdish shops. police arrives and stops the tension.

The Turkish nationalists turning against kurdish civilians is already there but thank god there are no actions. I dont know how ordinary people can get brainwashed by them though. that seems difficult but I understand your concern about possible clashes on a civil level. it is a horrific thought since i believe up to now kurdish civilians lived in some sense of harmony with Turks, mostly. noone gets singled out as being a kurd.

In any case I really don't understand where this attack of 350 kurdish bandits came from... this is absolute insanity, I really think Kurdish militants should stop elevating tensions in Turkey and you guys should stop congratulating them for doing so. you all sound blood thirsty.

Anonymous said...

Turkish e.t. - I'm pretty sure you can read English since it seems that you can somewhat write it. Where does it call for the disarmament of both armies?

It calls for the removal of Turkish forces in Kurdistan for the special purposes of war, and it calls for the disarmament of the village guard system. I don't know what kind of imaginary world you live in, but the village guard system was designed to monitor and suppress the Kurdish population, NOT to protect Turkey against Syria, Iran and Iraq. A call for disarmament of the village guards is totally justified in order to find a permanent solution to the conflict.

Article 6 calls for the disarmament of the rebels if and only if Articles 1-5 are realized.

You and "mazlum" can claim all you wish about the PKK elevating tensions or "needing" this conflict but the bottom line is this: Turkish Regime has not made any effort at peace while the offer for peace has been there and was laid out on the table by the PKK since at least August of 2008. Turkish Regime is at fault for ignoring the offer and continuing the conflict, and specifically, the fat pashas. It's a shame the Turkish people have to pay the price with their lives to keep the pashas bellies fat.

Turkish E.T. said...

"...6- In parallel to the realization of the above articles, the initiation, with a timetable determined by both parties, of the gradual disarmament and legal participation into the democratic social life...."

I understand that this might not be what they meant, but I think as it is written it means the disarmament of both sides.

Turkish E.T. said...

"Turkish Regime has not made any effort "

1- Kurdish identity is acknowledged in Turkey. Kurdish language and kurdish culture as well. Kurdish is spoken on television. Kurdish broadcasting, today, is legal. Kurdish singers are everywhere! Kurdish press is as biased as any other.

2- Kurdish language is spread through established Kurdish schools. the interest to them wasn't high i'm not sure why. there is no "first official language" in Turkey. theres just an official language, Turkish, I'm not sure what it means to you but it really doesnt mean much accept that "official communication" should be done in this language for sake of communication.

3- social inequalities... *sigh*... just... understand that these issues are much broader than just for Kurds. These are issues that concern entire turkey and your 350 bandits attacking a station is not doing anything to help these issues.

4- "social reconciliation" issue was already on the talks and was suggested by many prominent writers in Turkey.

5-"The removal of forces in Kurdistan" where is kurdistan??

by "social and political projects to be developed for the return of displaced villagers" do you mean
"social and political projects to displace villagers to their old placement" ???

6-... gradual disarmament of PKK all it's fractions is the correct wording here.

It's a shame the Turkish people have to pay the price... to keep the pashas bellies fat.

It's a shame the Turkish people have to pay the price... to keep the politicians bellies fat.

It's a shame the Turkish people have to pay the price... to keep the media owners bellies fat.

it's a shame that you just don't understand how democracies work.

Any armed conflict is a direct attack to the future of Turkey. Which is already fragile.

Anonymous said...

Turkish e.t. You and Turks like you should stop playing daft and lying to outside world and yourself. You can not ask Kurds to learn their own mother tongue by paying money to the private courses. You can not say Kurdish publications are legal in Turkey on one hand and other confiscating and banning all the Kurdish publications. You can not call half an hour Turkish fascist ideology teaching TV program as a Kurdish broadcast.

You have to have a full democracy or NONE...

Turkish -- e.t GO HOME! You are shame to whole humanity...

Anonymous said...

"350 Bandits" says that a bandit is
1.a robber, esp. a member of a gang or marauding band.
2. an outlaw or highwayman.

Thank god there's no significant bodies of navigable waters in Kurdistan or we'd be called Pirates. Pirates of Mesopotamia.

Turkish e.t. you should at least use the "bandit" term among Turkish speakers, since they can identify with the doublespeak, and with a more friendly audience because here, your attempt to change the nature and the scale of the rebellion against the Turkish state is comical.

And, please re-read your comments above. To aid you, I've prepared this:

*News Flash* Millions of Kurds have been displaced out of their homes and villages in Kurdistan because of the Turkish military's "scorched earth" and similar policies. The Kurds have long called for the implementation of social and political projects so that they can return to or rebuild their villages in Kurdistan.

This has been another PSA.


Turkish E.T. said...
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Turkish E.T. said...

hamo. It took a long time and effort for the democracy of Turkish republic to reach to this level. I see that you are not much happy with it. Possibly because you compare it to that of where you comfortably live, ie. france, netherlands or even spain today.

awful mistake to compare. But if you are not happy, you shall get what you want, for it is the basis of freedom in democracies. You will get your kurdish classes and your free speech publications... but what you don't understand is that you will not get these because Turks are understanding or they are
liberal, or they finally receive the message planted in your bombs and your bullets. You will only get these because it is a guarantee of a democratic society. Unlike Iran, or yesterdays Iraq, these are guaranteed to you in the future, this guarantee is rooted firmly in Turkey's belief in democracy in a secular republic.

if only the region was not so poor you would see.

Your bandits on a mountain with rifles on the other hand are fighting against this democracy. and you are congratulating them on their efforts of killing. disgusting.

Turkish E.T. said...

*News Flash* ?
that is not a news flash. What I try to say is the naive assumption in #5 that those displaced in 1993 would be willing to return the "their villages" today. Ridiculous.

Turkish E.T. said...

and I have to say the assumption that the TSK is hiding deaths is downright silly. Newspapers publish the names and counts online, at the age of the internet don't you think that any one from one of these 47 unheard / hidden soldiers families would stand up and say that their sun was killed too?


Damn. Kurdish media is biased in a way Turkish media cannot even bother to be.

Anonymous said...

"It took a long time and effort for the democracy of Turkish republic to reach to this level. Turkey's belief in democracy in a secular republic."

Turkish e.t Just incase you are away to another planet for a while that I would like to remind you of Turkeys both the PM and the President being ex-ultra radical Islamists who have close ties with Al-Qaida and Hamas. Almost every single governmental post in Turkey replaced by the Islamists and famous secularist Turkish army seemingly accepted power of the Islamists and finally taken orders from them without any problems at all.

Most of you fascist Turks are filty discusting creatures. I feel sory and angry for my Kurdish ancestors who made positive deals people you...

Turkish E.T. said...
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Turkish E.T. said...
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Turkish E.T. said...

"Turkish e.t Just incase you are away to another planet...Most of you fascist Turks are filty discusting creatures."

Hamo what can I say to someone who thinks I'm some creature alien from some planet far away? go ahead and think what you think, seems like no matter what I say you'll be thinking the same.

but you're wrong about islamists in Turkey.

Anonymous said...

"What I try to say is the naive assumption in #5 that those displaced in 1993 would be willing to return the "their villages" today. Ridiculous."

wow, your racism is quite disturbing. no wonder the hawks are thriving. So many feeble minded populace to feed on.

Next time you are in Istanbul, go and check out where and in what conditions those displaced Kurds live and if you still have the stomach to say what you just said...I guess I still wouldn't be suprised...

Turkish E.T. said...

anonymous. next time you are in Turkey, check around yourself and see what conditions all people live in. I feel like you are looking with very strong binoculars from very far away.

Anonymous said...

Then, you kind of prove my point, don't you? If people live in squalor with little means to earn a living, who don't speak the language, they'd go back to their villages where they actually had a livelihood and where they could sustain themselves and their families. It may not apply to the younger generation but for the recently displaced, it is a very real option. Can you answer why would it be naive? Obviously, the PKK isn't suggesting that fully urbanized Kurds or Turks who never lived in villages go back to their ancestral villages but the RECENTLY DISPLACED VILLAGERS.


Anonymous said...

Here is a link to quite a brilliant article by Mustafa Akyol:

It all neatly summarizes the overt and latent racism in turkish e.t.'s and other Turks' repeated use of the terms "bandits", "tribes" and reference to Kurds as mere "cave-dwellers" and the constant implication that Kurds are uneducated, illiterate, etc...


Turkish E.T. said...

Nistiman, what do you expect me to think of a bunch of men in a mountain with rifles other than bandits?
I have seen the "draft" prepared by these mountain men "to the Turkish government" and it is clear that they did not have to opportunity to go through any formal college education. And I approach this issue on a "it is what it is" way. For whatever reasons, they are uneducated, they have rifles, they kill people. They are bandits.

Nistiman. Can you please provide a news link in the past 5 years (recent enough?) to Kurdish villagers being displaced?

The article sent has nothing to do with me. I am not racist against Kurds. Kurds should stop wanting "borders" and a turkish government to open up kurdish schools so much and focus on their own culture, and priorities. Now! The fact that Kurdish culture is vast with clans. The fact that Kurdish culture values guns so much. The fact that honor killings are a way of life in Kurds. These are your social problems just like the issues of Turkey. How does PKK or your intellectual "freedom fighters" address these? Who addresses these other than Turkish parliament members?? Do these who run away from the tribe way of living to the mountains educate themselves more on todays Kurdish social issues or how to load a rifle?

Kurds being ineducated isn't an insult. It's a social issue. And it's a true issue. Kurds are ineducated. Those Kurds who attack are not intellectual freedom fighters with an agenda of prosperity for the Kurdish and Turkish civilization, they are bandits with nothing better to do! Children.

Azadîxwaz said...

so we see the fountain of wisdom pouring from turkish e.t.

I am baffled as to how he says that he is not racist, yet says that the Kurds, (a very broad generalization) are ineducated or maybe he means uneducated! I guess he does not even want to see the people who are responding him here are all literate and are educated and speak at least three if not four and five different languages and have much better understanding of the Kurdish problem than he does.

But then again, maybe he wont listen to me either!

Or maybe we should not try to explain him things, as he is determined to not open his eyes and see the cruel and concrete reality that lies in front of him. Maybe it is better that he does not acknowledge that the Kurds are being killed, tortured, discriminated against, raped, etc just because they happened to be Kurds, this way maybe and only this way maybe he is able to keep his sanity; as knowing these things or at least believing/seeing these things happen can and do drive one crazy!

I hope you see what we all are trying to say turkish e.t.

and good luck with understanding the Kurds as it seems like you are not willing to empathize or sympathize with them rather than generalizing and saying that you bunch of illiterate, stupid, feudal people!


Mizgîn said...

Thanks Turkish ET. Your bloviating here proves you are a fine example of Turkish racism.

Let everyone see and understand exactly the attitude of false cultural superiority and outright racism that Kurds face every day in Turkey and in Diaspora.

And if you don't want to see more of your soldiers dead for nothing then get the hell out of Kurdistan now.

Turkish E.T. said...
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Turkish E.T. said...

*uneducated* is the correct word indeed. Interesting irony there...

in any case when anyone mentions any "social issue" that is generalizing and is open to senseless "you are being a racist" criticism. But I am not. I am only addressing Kurdish social issues that the turkish government is prevented from addressing by the mountain bandits who find it their duty to rule the world.

Kurds are being killed, raped... sorry about those. but Kurds never had to sit on the back seats of a bus in Turkey. I am not here to express racist views. I believe I'm making very valid points on Kurdish social issues, and the future of kurdish prosperity... saying "good job" to some bandits who are only capable of shooting is not one of these points. you all support murderers and are not open to criticism much less than Turks.

and they, the pkk, these guys up in the mountain really don't even know what they want!

and you all fail to provide any point in any argument. "no reason to talk with this racist Turk" is what I hear so often...

the interesting part is you all live comfortably in western countries! way to go.

Azadîxwaz said...

Honestly I believe we have given more attention and care to you than we should have by trying to answer your accusations and claims about Kurdish people etc.

But, you seem quite determined to not change your mind and that is not how things work. We listened to you and told you what we thought but it seems like you are just one of those supposedly educated Turks who keeps looking down on the Kurds and thinks what he says/thinks is the only truth that will save not only the Kurds but the whole world!

Good luck on that,
And by the way nobody here would approve anybody's death, but if it is self-defense nobody should say anything

Turkish E.T. said...

seriously. can you guys please explain where women are in Kurdish society? Because I feel like in turkish societies women are behind... but in Kurdish they don't even exist.

just found this now:

"...She says she joined the PKK when she was 17 because she felt society was suffocating her, as a woman and as a Kurd..."

do you think she even knows what she is fighting for? this girl will die thanks to your efforts. escaping kurdish oppressive society that Turks cannot touch, and living in a mountain with not-well-defined ideals serving this and that mans needs of aggression.

"...The fighters stay well funded by Kurdish expatriates all over the world..."

Disgusting how you all feed clueless girls with guns into their own death. And yet you do nothing about the society that brought them there. it is not Turkey's fault you know.

Anonymous said...

Ahh you're not only racist but also sexist :) Why is it that you portray the young men who choose to go to the mountains as trigger-happy bandits who kill for pleasure but the young women who do it as weak, clueless creatures who are easily manipulated by Big Bad Men With Guns?

I do admit it fits nicely into your black-and-white picture of the Kurdish problem (which, by your understanding,is really the "Kurds' problem", since they just can't seem to accept the inferiority of their ways).

Your opinion that people can be educated only in stuffy college rooms belies history and all common sense. In Turkey, many are mis-educated and infused with racism in their universities, which should be the centers for higher-learning. In fact, the biggest racists are the self-perceived educated class of Turkish society. Socrates was an educated man and yet he learned while speaking to ordinary men on the streets of Athens. Aristocrats learned and studied literature in their libraries at home. The fact is, if you are open to searching for truth, it can be done anywhere. So, do not fool yourself that just because a PKK Guerrilla reads Faust wholeheartedly in the mountains that he is inferior to you because you have skimmed Faust just so you can get a passing grade in your Literature 101 class. And don't also suppose that a true education necessitates learning about the Kreb Cycle or the intricacies of calculus. It was once the case that a liberal education consisted of reading the Great Books and grappling with the persistent questions about how to live that the great minds struggled with. If you are at all familiar with the PKK, education is essential in a guerrilla's training. It would be foolish to assert that each guerrilla is equally well-educated, however, to make the opposite assertion that they are all illiterate mountain-(wo)men is also foolish and at best demonstrates your own ignorance.


Anonymous said...

turkish e.t said:

Nistiman. Can you please provide a news link in the past 5 years (recent enough?) to Kurdish villagers being displaced?

Do you mean aside from the displaced Kurdish villagers on the border between Turkey and Iraq where Turkey has been going on a bombing spree?

Turkish E.T. said...

No I don't mean them. Because there is nothing Turkey can do about them apart from apologizing. Those villages are in Iraq??

but it does not matter. any news piece will do that clearly shows villages and villages displaced in the last years.

Anonymous said...

Woe to you kurds when the pre islamic spirit fully awakens in our race, annihilation is what you shall face when a Turk says "nothing matters anymore but the destruction of my foes", youre playing with the worst kind of fire, the fire that renews our turkish souls. Tengri will be above us when the Gokturks are reawakened, aheyyyyyyyyy, your grandmothers will weep, aheyyyyyyy the greywolves will feast on your livers, please continue what you are doing, we need this reawakening.

Anonymous said...

Thanks, Anonymous, for the "message". You're a bit early for Halloween though.

Are you Turkish e.t.'s alter-ego?


Turkish E.T. said...

it's not me. interesting comment though.

other than that i think i just lost a post i wrote earlier.

Turkish E.T. said...

"So, do not fool yourself that just because a PKK Guerrilla reads Faust wholeheartedly in the mountains that he is inferior to you because you have skimmed Faust just so you can get a passing grade in your Literature 101 class."

Nistiman. I skimmed Faust but paid attention to Quantitative Analysis class. PKK Guerilla reads Faust wholeheartedly but he fills with incomparable joy in the "how to make a bomb that kills people" class I think.

and every social issue has the risk of being understood as a racist comment. However "kurdish women in kurdish societies are oppressed more than Turkish societies" is a correct statement about a valid social issue. It is not racist. It is true that every Kurd owns a gun and there are kurds who kill women with stones just because they run away from home... Kurdish culture in Turkey and Iraq is based on men. PKK is banking on these to recruit its members. Women in villages don't decide to become guerrilla, they run away and escape to it.

And with the help of comfortable western kurds like you... they die.

for a cause they don't even understand nor write down properly.

for that you do not care since you portray them as -heroes- rather than victims of their own culture, PKK, and Turkey. to you, they are just heroes and I find this disgusting. the way you support terrorism, bombs and bullets today is disgusting.

the way you cannot send any article about the displaced villagers in the last 5 years in Turkey is disgusting. You have to understand that progress in the Kurdish issue depends on prosperity and peace.

Anonymous said...

Re: Displaced Villagers

Turkish e.t. your arguments change at every single post.

Your original point was that it was "naive" for the PKK to call for social and political projects for the recently displaced refugees to return to their villages based.

I did not understand whether you thought it was naive because you were trying to argue that perhaps those refugees left voluntarily or whether those internal refugees would not want to go back.

In your reply , you doubted whether "those displaced in 1993 would be willing to return the "their villages" today. Ridiculous."

I pointed out that those same displaced refugees were living in horrible conditions and would indeed return to their villages.

Your reply was to the effect that most Turks live in comparable circumstances and they aren't running back towards their villages. Obviously, this is laughable. You are comparing villagers who came to Turkey and Kurdish cities throughout the 1990s to Turks who were never really displaced to begin with and who never lived in villages.

Now, you are asking me to find the names of villages destroyed by Turkey after 2003. Why 2003? How was this arbitrary date chosen? I have no idea why this has ANY relevance to the discussion of displaced villagers returning to their villages. That's why I didn't bother doing any research.

Is your argument NOW based on the fact that there are no "recently displaced villagers" because the majority of the ethnic cleansing occurred in 1993 (and continued throughout the late 1990s)therefore, it cannot be considered "recent"? Should villagers be denied the right of return because they did not meet your arbitrary test of it happening in "recent" events (defined as any event occurring up to 5 years ago)?

I was merely being facetious when I asked you abuot Turkey's bombings of border villages between Turkey and Iraq. It merely shows that Turkey has emptied the Kurdish countryside in Turkey and is now moving into more remoter areas. But, to repeat, this has NOTHING to do with the return of milllions of internal Kurdish refugees to their villages no matter where they happen to be.

Anonymous said...

I don't know if you are aware of the recent report by the Human Right Association in Turkey but 70% of the recorded honor killings actually committed by the Turkish man in West and Black Sea area of Turkey. Turks and the authorities (usually Islamic mullahs) of these Turkish towns where honor killings committed keep it quite because this is Turkish tradition. Kurds make it public and seek for solution because honor killings brought it to Kurdistan by the oppressors.

Either fascist people like you and fascist Turkish army get out of Kurdistan or the fighting will never end.

Turkish E.T. said...
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Turkish E.T. said...

Anonymous let me put it this way:

You and 349 of your friends gather and kill a Turk. A soldier that was put to guard a border, that is serving mandatory duty as required by the Turkish constitution. You kill him because you want to. He is there because it is required by the Turkish constitution.

They ask you: Why did you kill him?

You say, we killed him for the recent displacements of villagers. And because he didn't place them back to their village.

They ask you when that happened.

You say, it happened in 1993.


To me this sounds like a joke

Turkish E.T. said...


can you please send a link to the "recent report" that talks about the kurdish honour killings percentage as being even less than 30%? and sunni turks are 70%.

here is the only report that mentions Blacksea regions issue. and it is not saying what you mention. excuse for lack of a better way to put this but: this is not, what I am not saying:

the rest of the reports do not count the ethnicity of the person. There can be many reasons for why they dont know the ethnicity, but
in any case I think it's a beautiful thing that they dont.

the percentages published are these:
Đstanbul’da (%15), Ankara (%13), Đzmir (%11), Diyarbakır (%6), Bursa (%5) , Antalya (%4)

there is no city from the blacksea region here.

Anonymous said...

What you've described is a joke so I won't bother responding.

I fail to follow what this has any relevance to your original argument that it is Naive of PKK to think Kurdish villagers would want to return to their villages.

I'm weary of entering into another discussion only to have you twist your arguments along the way until I don't recognize what the issue was to begin with.


Turkish E.T. said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Turkish E.T. said...

nistiman :)
in short that clause and that entire official statement by the PKK is invalid. Thus, the reason of your attacks and murders are invalid.

PKK should be a little more careful in their -official in itself- statements while addressing actually official countries.

what do you think a government is? a blog or something?

Nistiman. I'm telling you that you are just blood thirsty. and you're slowly proving me right.

Mizgîn said...

You've got a lot of nerve, ET, coming here and telling a bunch of illiterate, uneducated, gun-toting mountain primitives to provide you with anything.

You know we can't read or write.

If you're so freaking educated, you ought to be able to operate Google. YOU go Google information on Kurds displaced by the terrorists of the TSK. There's been plenty on that subject on this blog alone but you never bother to post any comments on that subject.

See, this is why I don't do dialog. Dialog with you people always descends into a huge pile of bullshit, just like everything you've commented here.

And while you wallow in your bullshit, ET, 62 of your little troops are dead, they don't know what they died for and neither do their families, and your dear leader is still going to tell them that "military service is not a place where you take it easy" even while at least one of his kids didn't have to take his little biskuvi cocugu ass to do his military duty.

In short, your government doesn't give a shit about any of you.

On the other hand, our guerrillas know exactly why they fight and exactly for what they die.

As a dying female guerrilla commander said years ago: "Our people are going to get what is rightfully theirs. I am proud to have died for this. Tell everyone we will succeed."


Turkish E.T. said...

"...You've got a lot of nerve, ET..."

well yea. here is probably watched by the Turkish government, military, kurdish militants, kurdish drug lords and everyone else...

it doesn't take -nerve-s I think it takes some foolish balls to "come here and tell"

this is the trouble with intellectual liberals in Turkey. They get gang-banged by both sides.

other than that unlike you Mizgin I *always do dialog*

Under any circumstances, in any case, with any person I am open to dialog. Mizgin you should be like this too.

Anonymous said...

Yo, trrkshit e.t...Get the fuck out of here. I know your type. Just keep changing their arguments and not prepared to change your mind. Let me give you a tip. When you enter a discussion, you can not, I repeat, CANNOT, enter the discussion without being ready for new information and a change of opinions in some degree, be it high or low. If you really were NOT a typical Trrk fascist, you would do a damn search on some of these issues before talking shit. You're not in Trrkey anymore, my friend! You can't hide the trust anymore!! Thank God for the Internet! Next time you have a question or is in doubt about the legitimacy of the Kurdish freedom struggle for a free KURDISTAN(the part you like to call "s.e. trrkey", which by the way has never been a part of official policies at any time of history, solely because your lowlife, dick-lacking fascist grandfathers never gave a thought about being an honorable civilization. In return, you have got the planet's weakest economies/government structures, and hold the record as the most lying, double-standard, killing, anti-democratic and fascist sons of bitches in the world. Now get the fuck out of here, no one is interested in discussing with you. Fucking piece of shit.
-Kucikê bênamus.

Anonymous said...

Wow, turkish e.t.’s responses got a lot of backlash. Even despite being told I was blood thirsty, I felt bad for the guy. He has attempted to enter into a dialogue without outright swearing against Kurds and the PKK. We should give him credit for that.

The Kurds, and the PKK in particular, are open to dialogue, and we have quite low standards, relatively speaking. However, the merits of dialogue in the comments section of a blog are dubious, especially since no one knows who’s really who and as turkish e.t. has pointed out, who might be listening in.

It’s too bad that some Turks go to the military involuntarily and the Kurds make the experience a dangerous and unpleasant one, but the Kurds have legitimate grievances that have not been answered by the minimal and largely cosmetic reforms that the Turkish state has made, which may or may not be permanent and which may or may not develop into more substantial minority rights for the Kurds. Furthermore, until the Kurdish people can choose their political representatives freely, and they have some semblance of hope that they will not be killed, imprisoned, or banned from politics, the Kurds’ reliance upon armed rebellion is their right, and at the face of such ruthless abandon, in my opinion, their exercise of such a right can be morally sanctioned. We’re not put on this earth to be treated as inferior based on our race, ethnicity or religion. Call me thirsty for freedom, for equality, for justice, but not blood.