Wednesday, June 23, 2010

THE FALCONS OF KURDISTAN

"Don't worry. Such things happen. We are doing all that we can."
~ General Gürbüz Kaya, TSK.


The falcons of Kurdistan are tearing the flesh of the wolves of the Turkish Republic.

On its website, Teyrêbazên Azadîya Kurdistan (TAK) has claimed responsibility for yesterday's bombing of a military bus in Istanbul. TAK states that the bombing was in retaliation for "an unjust war in Kurdistan" and it also warns TSK about using civilians as shields and warns all civilians to stay away from military areas and vehicles for their own security. It would appear that TAK's intention is to continue its attacks. There's a little more on TAK's statement at Bianet.

The Independent remarks that this bombing marks the end of HPG's ceasefire. However, the end of the ceasefire occurred on 1 June and HPG has no relationship to TAK. If urban operations continue, it may be possible that TAK will operate in some coordinated manner with HPG since TAK has always remained open to such a possibility. At this point, of course, it's too early to tell.

Still, it would be a good idea to avoid Turkey as a travel destination this year.

HPG's policy of active defense has resulted in numerous TSK deaths in the last few weeks. The responsibility for these deaths lies with TSK as the natural result of its recent heavy operations in Turkish-occupied Kurdistan. Heavy TSK losses are also a result of a combination of hubris and incompetence in the Turkish officer corps--a fact that Turkish families are suddenly recognizing.

Not that this would be the first instance of such hubris and incompetence. Remember the Dağlıca (Oremar) commander, Onur Dirik? Well, so does Zaman:


Dağlıca Battalion Commander Lt. Col. Onur Dirik had left his battalion at the time of the attack to attend a wedding. His pictures, dancing at the wedding at the time of the attack, were published in national newspapers.


Now the families are blaming the deaths of their beloved this last weekend on the paşa in charge of the garrison in Şemdinli, General Gürbüz Kaya. It would appear that not only is this particular paşa filled with hubris and incompetence, but he's a big, fat liar, too:


Kaya was previously in the press for his remarks in a recorded phone conversation last year after it became evident that mines that killed seven soldiers in an explosion two years ago had been planted by the Turkish military rather than the PKK. The tragic background of the incident was revealed by Van prosecutors who launched an investigation into the mine explosion after a telephone conversation between Brig. Gen. Zeki Es and Maj. Gen. Kaya indicating that the mines were planted by the people who were responsible for the soldiers' security came to light. In the recording, Kaya -- speaking about the blast that killed seven soldiers -- can be heard telling Es: “Don't worry. Such things happen. We are doing all that we can.”


OOPS!!

But, then, we know for a fact that Turkish officers don't give a shit. Remember this, from last year:


Four soldiers were killed in the eastern province of Elazığ on Aug. 17 after a lieutenant gave one of the privates a hand grenade whose pin he had pulled out to punish him for sleeping during his night watch, the Taraf daily claimed yesterday.

The testimony of members of the army obtained by the daily reveal that the four soldiers died when an activated grenade given to them by Lt. Mehmet Tümer exploded. According to the records, Tümer wanted to punish Pvt. İbrahim Öztürk for falling asleep during his night watch. It had previously been claimed that the soldiers were killed when a hand grenade carried by one of the soldiers exploded accidentally as they were patrolling the rural area against the prospect of a terrorist attack by the outlawed Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK). Four other soldiers were injured in the blast. However, soldiers' testimonies point to a totally different cause behind the deaths.


So, this criminally feckless attitude is rife among the officer corps of NATO's second largest army. How appropriate for such a pack of hyenas. Bengi Yıldız is right: "Don't send your children to military service".

On a related matter, Israeli UAV technicians and instructors were recalled to Israel in the first half of June, after the Mavi Marmara incident. CNN reported this:


After the May 31 [Mavi Marmara] incident, Turkey's prime minister ominously warned "nothing would ever be the same again," between the two once-close Middle Eastern allies. Recep Tayyip Erdogan has demanded that Israel apologize for what he has repeatedly labeled an act of "state terrorism" and "piracy" in the eastern Mediterranean.

Turkey withdrew its ambassador from Tel Aviv, Israel, in protest and cancelled joint military exercises with Israel. But Ankara has been careful not to sever ties with the Israeli defense industry.


Further down in that article, İlker Paşa had this to say:


When asked on Monday whether Israeli technicians and engineers had to cut short training on the new drones due to the recent rift in relations, Basbug insisted Turkish operators were adequately prepared to pilot the Herons.

"Now our own personnel, our air force, is using the Heron systems that we bought," Basbug said. "They got the training, it is over. We are capable, we have started using them."


But I think İlker Paşa prevaricates; yesterday, Zaman reported that a Turkish military delegation arrived in Israel on Tuesday to complete some testing on the Heron systems. They'll be there for two weeks.

So much for all of Katil Erdoğan's anti-Israel, pro-Palestinian solidarity shit.

In conclusion, let me express my best wishes to our dear Kurdish falcons and let's all lift a glass to happy hunting!

89 comments:

Turkish E.T. said...

yea no parent should send their kid to the army, true. But do you know the punishment if they don't?

On the other hand do you know the punishment if they do?

Deaths due to mistreatment or accidents happen in any army. Don't you know this? If you know it, what is your point in writing about all this?

The truth is you and your cartoon hero "Freedom Fighters" are out there bombing and shooting bullets for no apparent reason.

And now BDP is even blaming AKP for the "Kurdish initiatives" now. What a mess. You feed on chaos and you wont succeed. Kurdish of Turkey will deservedly get their reforms and you will have no contribution to that.

Hevallo said...

E.T. I don't suppose that you are 'in a place' where you can possibly see some 'home truths' but truths they most certainly are.

The Turkish State has 'given' nothing to the Kurds, only misery, torture and death.

Any so called 'reform' has been gained by struggle.

Deep and bitter struggle of the Kurdish people.

While the PKK were on ceasefire the Turkish state was rounding up Kurdish MP's and activists from the DTP and then banned it!!

Tell me, do you think that the state should react to an opportunity for peace by acting in a way that only prolongs the conflict?

You have to know that the Kurdish people want peace because it is they who suffer much more.

And you have to know that the Turkish state do not seem to be making 'any' serious moves that would signal that they do want peace.

One side declares a ceasefire so the other side then intensifies it's repression?

It's not right, is it?

Anonymous said...

E.T. I hope you are not here to defend TSK. I don't think you would be credible.

First two questions for you:

1. Why does TSK use civilian vehicles to transport military personnel anyway?

2. Why do some civilians travel on military vehicles?

While death and mistreatment can happen in any army, in modern states, it's openly argued about and discussed. What does TSK say? Oh PKK did it and the media makes a show off it.

As for AKP... There is no reason why Kurds should trust any Turkish party much less AKP. The history, even at AKP time, tells us the same. AKP jailed Kurdish politicians who have never had anything to do with violence. Perhaps AKP now can win a few of those municipalities. Great opening. If anything this is opening for Turkish supremacy.

Also, do you know about the law AKP just passed? The presidency law. What does it say? Only a party that gets 10% of votes nationwide can nominate someone for presidency. And what is this? This is a very nice law to make sure that someone who is openly Kurdish and stands up to Kurdish people's right cannot be the president. So... Would you really trust a party like that? What AKP (and perhaps you) want is that the Turkish people's supremacy stand and the Kurds remain under control.

Let's not even talk about how AKP passed the law that would imprison CHILDREN for decades under terrorism charges.

Why all of a sudden AKP and some Turkish people started talking about SOME Kurdish rights anyway?

It's because the masters want get richer on Kurdistan's natural resources and Turkey would get a few bones too. That's why.

One last comment... Kurds have learned it. Tit for tats. Turks have the one with the military power and they are playing good cop bad cop on Kurds. Stop your dogs and Kurds won't throw stones. You won't stop your dogs, well, the dogs will get stones.

Berfo

Turkish E.T. said...

Turkish state has given nothing to do Kurds??? Look I admit it has not given enough, and probably nothing until the 80's but you can't say that it gave nothing. The state generally had nothing to start with! roads. electricity. water. These are thing that a basic turkish village lacked too, not just a Kurdish village!

If it has not given anything what is G.A.P ???
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southeastern_Anatolia_Project

Read and you will realize that PKK does not want GAP to develop because PKK does not want a developed southeastern anatolia.
PKK does not want a developed Turkey.
PKK does not want a developed Kurdish identity.

Because there is no single organization that has a single will called PKK. PKK is composed of a lot of kurds with different ideals and goals and there is no higher goal. Only the method is the same: killing. Just like the "oups, these were not authorized by us the central command" attacks in Tokat a few months back.

You cannot say that Turkish state has given nothing to Kurds. *Nothing* is too big of a word to start a sensible discussion. You dont make sense if you dont see at least a bit of simple truths. And GAP is not simple it is $15 Billion Big!!!!

The PKK were on ceasefire. I wish the Turkish army had declared *ceasefire* as well. But when Turkish army declares ceasefire that would mean an actual ceasefire. No attacks whatsoever. Unlike PKK'S ceasefire where PKK members, acting independently, killed a lot of men. Now tell me, if you keep killing soldiers and civilians in your ceasefire, what do you mean by ceasefire???? And why if Turkish army declared ceasefire and one of PKK's independent units attacked and killed a soldier or civilian? It surely seems possible according to what your ceasefire looked this past year.

Unfortunately an army, as at least a bit of an organized unit, does not have the luxury of declaring ceasefire and end of ceasefire every few months. Or attacking after it declares ceasefire. Or loosing control of its units and them attacking seperately. These are only attributed to PKK. And that is why it is not worth to declare a ceasefire.

Turkish E.T. said...

Unlike the unified and rigid structure of Turkish army, unfortunately Turkish government isnt homogenous. It is painfully diverse and a lot of hosts a lot of masks. Can you even claim that BDP the kurdish party members work solely for the benefit of Kurdish crowd?

If Kurdish people want peace they must drop the guns and stop PKK. Because PKK only wants chaos. And partition of south Turkey from Turkey mainland. At a time of unification of European Union the idea is absurd and ugly. You must tell PKK to stop its efforts to "end tourism in Turkey" !!! what kind of an ugly goal is that.

You must tell all kurds to join civilian organizations and start their revolution there. The truth is out there and at the age of the internet it is much easier to spread it. I wonder if you'll agree: The Kurdish culture in Turkey, after all this armed struggle, is unfortunately forgotten about. It is a macho culture based on the dominance of men, even more than the average Kurdish and women seems to be forgotten... It is still where Yılmaz Güney left in his movies, is it not?

You say Turkish state does not make any serious moves. To be honest I totally believe in the "Kurdish initiatives". I do believe they started softly, however the nationalist monster in an average Turkish is not to be waken violently. sometimes an "education system" is even worst than a camp. So the same deal with european union accession talks, and Ergenekon trials, kurdish initiatives, everything is taking slow but its pretty speedy compared to past and even to such changes in other countries. Southeast Turkey is too beautiful and already too integrated culturally for any Turk to not even care about. And mind you Kurdish TV and kurdish trt is a pretty serious move.

hm I dont really know why Turkish military uses civilian vehicles to transport military personel or civilians to travel on military vehicles. I guess you are trying to say 2 things.. ? .. 1 is that Turkish military is clueless in general regulations and rather disorganized. 2 is that turkish military is conspiring against its own soldiers by putting them in danger so that any attack would be played in the media to feed hatred for kurds... What does it matter if I accept both? What difference does it make?

"While death and mistreatment can happen in any army, in modern states, it's openly argued about and discussed."
Man. I dont know which one you mean by modern states. If you mean USA you are absolutely wrong since they are not even allowed to display photos of the coffins of the dead. Absolutely not. "AKP jailed Kurdish politicians" is absolutely ignorant statement on how a system works in any democracy. AKP cannot jail anyone. AKP is just a party. It is not the law. It is not the police. You are on the opposite side of an argument where on the other side ultranationalists are blaming of AKP for controlling to law and the police and jailing army personnel. Just not possible. Look if there is a proper Kurdish party I am sure it will take more than 20% of the votes in Turkey. 10% is just too soon to criticize yet. The chaos in Turkish government has been at its height the pass 4 years. There are major changes happening and like all proper change they are painful to deal with.

AKP did not pass any law regarding jailing of children! Didnt they indeed try to remove and were protested in political ways by other parties? In any case that stupid law shall be removed in less then a year and Im sure PKK will still keep influencing and recruiting teens and children. am i wrong?

"Why all of a sudden AKP and some Turkish people started talking about SOME Kurdish rights anyway?"

All of a sudden? Where have you been the last 15 years? Do you have any idea how far we came and what it took to get here?

Jewish Odysseus said...

WELCOME BACK, MIZGIN! WE NEVER APPRECIATE THE FINER THINGS IN LIFE UNTIL THEY ARE GONE!

(or at least "missing")

Jewish Odysseus said...

BTW, Mizgin, I discovered a new site that I thought you'd like especially--here is one recent article on the northern Kurds: http://www.indynewsisrael.com/turkish-forces-gun-down-civilians-in-kurdistan

Jewish Odysseus said...

oooops, "news site."

Pola said...

Nice to see you back on track Mizgîn.

Anonymous said...

I am so glad you are back, Mizgin.

srusht

Jewish Odysseus said...

Syria cracks down on PKK:
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/138386

Anonymous said...

Hi Turkish ET, I have been way too busy to get to your disinformation so I will try to be very brief.

You talk about Turkish military being "unified" and one body. So that means the TSK is fully responsible for killing all the civilians (18000 plus extrajudicial killings of civilians) since JITEM is indeed part of TSK. What does this make the TSK, the TSK who most recently killed Ceylan Onkol, a small child?

What has Turkish state given to Kurds since 1923, you tell me, what other than grief and oppression? NOTHING.

Who are you to talk about giving rights? God? Kurds will TAKE their rights, they don't have to beg for it.

Your dislike of Kurds and everything Kurdish comes out at every chance you have. So you brought up the "macho Kurdish culture" again. First explain to me the typical Turkish mentality that surfaces in what the Mayor of Rize said. He recommends Turkish men take a Kurdish woman as a second wife. Real progressive culture. Also explain to me the AKP members (and also TSK) in Siirt who were raping kids for years. If anything, the Turkish culture is based on rape. We haven't forgotten Kurdish women throwing themselves off the cliffs into the waters of Munzur so that the beasts of Turkish military couldn't rape them.

You talk about PKK being divided etc in a condescending way yet when it comes to Turkish state's horrible acts, the "dividedness" becomes an excuse. AKP is the government and you are telling me that the minister of internal affairs cannot control its police (KCK operations and other recent events). So tell me now, doesn't this mean the state is totally defunct? We all know what happens to defunct states.

You also imply AKP is not the one who jails children. Yes, the TMK was there since 1990ies but it was the AKP who modified it in 2006 so that children can be tried as terrorists in adult courts and be jailed for decades. Perhaps you should try to speak the facts honestly. Read these about TMK: http://www.sendika.org/yazi.php?yazi_no=31183&ref=halkevleri

and

http://bianet.org/bianet/siyaset/116784-akpli-kurt-cocuklari-teror-suclariyla-yargilamak-hataydi

You come here for disinformation and apparently you have a lot of time and desire for it.

With all these things I have pointed out, let me ask YOU, where have you been ALL these years (not only last 15)?

Berfo

PS: The recent improvements were NOT given by the Turkish state. They were TAKEN by the Kurds. There is a big difference.

PS2: You are also misinformed about American Military. Just google the trials of military personnel for the crimes they have committed. None of them have their name given to a garrison when they kill 33 innocent civilians.

Jewish Odysseus said...

Here is another article about a recent attack by the PKK:
http://www.indynewsisrael.com/oil-resumes-flow-after-pkk-attack-halted-pumping

Turkish E.T. said...

"You talk about Turkish military being "unified" and one body. So that means the TSK is fully responsible for killing all the civilians (18000 plus extrajudicial killings of civilians) since JITEM is indeed part of TSK. "

Well yes! sucker, yes. It is absolutely responsible. What do you think -an army- is? A defense measure to keep people safe and happy? No. its not and it hasnt been in Turkey either. Not for Kurds, not for Turks, not for alevi's or communists or anyone else.

But this still doesnt mean you should fight an eye for an eye! The Turkish army might have done things, but its not just kurds who are effected. Millions of Turkish activists, journalists, kids are effected too!

But not any more. Not in 2010. The Turkish army is completely at bay now and the only thing that is giving its power are the terrorist tactics of PKK. They are causing an increasing support for the army and the idea of martyrdom. Do you understand this? That PKK is actually hand in hand with the Turkish army, even without its will?


"...Who are you to talk about giving rights? God? Kurds will TAKE their rights, they don't have to beg for it..."
Whatever you want to call it. Taking rights. Giving rights I dont think its important the definition. I surely would prefer it to be a "taking rights" situation since that is the basis of democracy, however everything has to be balanced and in peace so we can all live comfortably happy. Dont you think? Isnt that your actual goal?

"Mayor of Rize" is a moron. So are many "aga"s and kurdish village chiefs in the east. In case you dont live in the region let me tell you the truth: 60% of Turkey; are morons. Straight up under developed minds due to lack of food, fear, tough living conditions, religious pressure and other cultural pressure. Get over it and please filter out the radical silly childish thoughts instead of adding yours on top. All I am saying is that the "other cultural pressure" s are high in Kurdish culture. In Turkish culture they are replaced with "nationalism" but still similar. However please focus on your culture. Don't ignore the truth by blaming me of my other Turks culture.

Turkish E.T. said...

"If anything, the Turkish culture is based on rape."
...seriously. this is how you want to continue this discussion? By sweeping kurdish cultural issues under the rug and focusing on racist remarks about Turks?


"recent improvements were taken by the kurds???"
Man even your kurdish parlimenters lost their hope in the kurdish initiatives after a couple of months. What the hell have the done other than stirring things up? Do you understand that Kurdish parlimenters are supposed to REPRESENT kurds. And that they have not done so?

And now for factual information. Step by step so you would understand:

Terörle Mücadele Kanunu’nun (TMK) - "The Anti Terrorism Act" was established in 1991.
This is the beginning date of this problem. The change in 2006 was a minor change that simply said children aged 16-18 can be tried similar to adults. That is not the beginning date of this issue. So the problem is still there for 12-15 and has always been there. Anyone who speaks of disinformation and says "AKP who modified it in 2006 so that children can be tried as terrorists " is just an oxymoron by himself.



Oh man you are so wrong about American military I dont even know where to correct you. Clearly you are a sucker of American aid. What do you do in your day job? Drive hummers around northern iraq?

just look at your biggest supporter: "Jewish Odysseus" an ex-Cia racist fuck throwing bullets of wisdom from his comfortable florida home to the rest of the world. its all too disgusting for me to handle.

are you guys really even in Turkey? do you know what its like to walk around in this region or in kurdistan?

Americans killed more civilians in last 10 years than Turkey did in decades , and you still have the balls to claim they are just and fair?



Yıkıl karşımdan.

Anonymous said...

If you can't handle a discussion, then don't get into it (oh you were talking about Macho culture too.. LOL). What do you mean "Yıkıl karşımdan"? You come here talking about civility and yet use such phrases? Very civilized of you. Perfect representation of your culture though. If you can't stand a Kurd arguing back and pointing out your scum, then perhaps you should stay away from us. We know having your supremacy challenged is something new for you. But guess what? Tough luck.

By the way, just to give you another reminder of your fantastic culture, look what your historians write:

http://www.taraf.com.tr/ayse-hur/makale-1934-trakya-olaylari.htm

Now answer me, since you are so big on truth. I have a very simple question for you. How many US citizens has the American military killed in the last 87 years and how many has Turkish military? Also tell me, what does Turkish security forces do to its members who kill Kurds? They get promoted to being a hero. Tell me, has anyone from the AKP even taken a minute to call Ceylan Onkol's mother? Kurds have their representatives. Heck, despite all the support from the military and police, DTP still won the majority of the municipalities in Kurdistan. We all know the games you guys play at elections. Let me remind you what your kind did in Mersin sometime ago.

And here is some statistics for you, since you are talking about terrorism. It's out of date and doesn't include recent murders the Turkish soldiers have committed:

http://zarokenroj.blogspot.com/2009/05/351-kurdish-children-killed-by-turkish.html

TMK, in its active form today, it AKPs doing. I am not going to teach you your own language but you need to listen to some of the Turkish people and what they say.

So finally, another point you conveniently ignored. Why keeping a 10% rule in nominating someone for presidency? Tell me AKP didn't do that either? Hahahaha!

I won't say "kneel and get lost" but speak to me if you can act like an objective human being. There are too many nationalistic cowards out there as it is.

Finally about where I am. Florida is a place the Turkish deep state always favored. Are we having a Freudian slip here?

How many times have you been to Kurdistan? Why won't you call it Kurdistan but so called eastern turkey? ;)

Berfo

Anonymous said...

ET one more thing. Can you define what terrorism means?

Anonymous said...

"just look at your biggest supporter: "Jewish Odysseus" an ex-Cia racist fuck throwing bullets of wisdom from his comfortable florida home to the rest of the world."

I don't know who Jewish Odysseus is or what he or she supports, but I would like to ask the following. Hey Jewish Odysseus, are you being mentored by Fethullah Gulen on how to hand out wisdom while sitting in a comfortable mansion in the USA?

Turkish E.T. said...

Tell me something I do not know.

Berfo. I accept my cultures shortcomings, my armys shortcomings, my governments shortcomings. And what do you accept? Nothing. Anyone who says "If anything, the Turkish culture is based on rape" is lost forever, like a radical islamist, or a comfortable westerner. There is no hope for understanding in you. Thats why you should get lost.

You are always on the offensive and nothing will satisfy you. This blindness makes you unaware of your ownself, your culture. This is very dangerous because without this aggression, you would be lost. If someone gave you all you wanted now, you would be unsatisfied because you dont know who you are.

Isnt your culture based on machoness? Isnt that why women join PKK? ISnt that why weak people run away and join pkk, to find an equality that is not present in their culture? This culture issue is your responsibility as much as it is Turkish governments. And I ask you, what have you done? Arent honor killins more relevant in your culture than most ethnic minorities in Turkey? Tell me have you even watched "YOL" of yilmaz yüney? A few years ago I mentioned that a kurdish girl in one of the protest photos was hot, and you all were going to dismember me. So what if she is hot? What culture do you belong to?

=="How many US citizens has the American military killed in the last 87 years and how many has Turkish military? "==
America is not 87 years old Berfo. That comparison is nonsense. Incase you didnt know, america, as a country was more developed culturally 87 years ago than Turkey is today. And yet there was more racism then there was in Turkey. This complex contradictions makes it hard to compare. The demographics, the culture, the religion, they are so very different. Kurds never had to ride on the back of the bus in Turkey.

Any army personnel in any army gets promoted when they kill. That is combat skills related. Same with American army! Ceylan Onkol is killed by the result of an agression on both sides. Nobody fired at Ceylan Onkol. she hit on a mortar. If you think people at the army targeting this girl from a distance and killed, then you confuse your army with american army where drug dealers and thugs enlist so they could make a living. I say -your army- because there are Kurds in Turkish army berfo. You are really too lost.

Turkish E.T. said...

=="TMK, in its active form today, it AKPs doing. "==
You really dont understand the basis of analytical thought. There were children jailed before 2006. Do you not understand this simple fact?

And incase you didnt notice: I called Kurdistan, Kurdistan! In the last sentence. For me names do not matter, borders do matter, you are trying to establish borders in the wrong era, wrong place!


And no matter what make up you put on things you cannot claim Turkey occupied Kurdistan. That would be too silly to do so because the truth is simply out there. Israel occupies palestine. US occupies iraq and afganistan. Turkey, has been in Kurdistan the last couple hundred years!

=="Why keeping a 10% rule in nominating someone for presidency? Tell me AKP didn't do that either? "==
I dont exactly know what you mean by this. IS there a 10% rule for presidency? There is a 10% rule for political parties but that does not matter. There are only 2 parties in USA for fuck sake, what does that change anything? A party is an independent entity from causes and will. For example there can be environmental causes and wills in the parliement regardless if an environmental party fails the 10% and stays out of the parliment!

what the hell does fethullah gulen has to do with any of these??? nonsense.

=="despite all the support from the military and police, DTP still won the majority of the municipalities in Kurdistan. "==
What does this tell you about the possibilities in modern day Turkey? Is this not the basis of democracy.


=="Can you define what terrorism means?"==
Terrorism is to plant bombs to communicate a message. To fire bullets to say something. If you want to take this to meanings for both sides do so. I dont think you understand my stance here. Forget about the army, PKK must drop its guns. Just as I dont have a blog supporting the killings of Turkish army, you shouldnt keep a blog supporting the -martyrs- and the killings of PKK. You are being a savage when doing so. It is primitive. And you are hurting the peace efforts, the efforts for justice.

Anonymous said...

Let me tell you a few things. I will be brief (lack of time prevents me from thoroughly addressing every point you make).

"America is not 87 years old Berfo. That comparison is nonsense." The 87 years is how old Turkey is, not America. It seems you have missed the point. Besides, you brought up the American military, not me. As for black people vs Kurds and riding in the back of the bus: Kurds have lived in their lands for over 4000 years and Turks came later. Black people were brought to America as slaves. You can't take what's convenient for you and leave the whole picture out.

"And no matter what make up you put on things you cannot claim Turkey occupied Kurdistan. That would be too silly to do so because the truth is simply out there. Israel occupies palestine. US occupies iraq and afganistan. Turkey, has been in Kurdistan the last couple hundred years!"

HUNDRED years, REALLY? How old is Turkey? As to your claim of Turkey not occupying, I recommend you read the government report on Dersim and then why the Dersim massacre was carried on by Turkey. I also want to tell you that whenever you say "TSK might have done wrong.." MIGHT? It's this very thing with your culture that ticks me off the most. Never having the guts to admit wrong doings.

Yes I have seen YOL. Have you seen Duvar? I could also pick up Erol Tas, Kazim Kartal, Cuneyt Arkin, heck even Hadi Caman and Ali Poyrazoglu movies. Let's not pick and choose. Kurdish culture is transforming. Which party has 40% women? You need to take off those racism glasses.

PKK is the sole defence Kurdish people has had within the Turkish state. I bet you either don't now or don't want to admit to know the atrocities the Turkish security forces have been committing in Kurdistan. I am not speaking out of thin air either. If Turkey hasn't occupied Kurdistan then why the Turkish security forces always acted just as an occupying state would? Read what happened to Armenians who gave up their guns in Adana. Read about how Seyid Riza was tricked and killed.

Easy for you to say that PKK should lay down the arms. Each time PKK declared a cease-fire, the TSK pressed even more. Heck, the PKK pulled all it's forces outside Turkey and even at the time they were pulling back, the TSK was attacking and killing. Not only that, they were beheading the guerrillas and taking pictures with heads held up. If the PKK laid down arms today, I will tell you what will happen. Erdogan will declare victory and say "There is no Kurdish issue, if you don't think about it, it won't exist".

The truth is, the Kurds do not and will never trust the Turkish state. Each time they did, they faced massacre.

The Fethullah Gulen gig was in response to Jewish Ody's potential connection to CIA. Well, Fethullah seems to have stronger connections and he does mentor the AKP you know.

Finally, on the Turkish presidency. Go read the law AKP passed. Craftily designed to make sure someone who stands for Kurds will never become the President.

USA parties again... Well, there are more than two parties. People vote for two. Besides, you just said USA was not a good example to compare. Why don't you defend the federalism in USA or Dutch or Swedish model for elections?

Your terrorist definition has perfectly described the Turkish security forces. Seriously, I despise them. The police runs prostitution rings and sells drugs. Kurds don't want to be that advanced. Do we need to apologize for that. I rather HPG deal with them as they are protected by so called "laws of a democratic state."

Turkish E.T. said...

"Kurds have lived in their lands for over 4000 years and Turks came later. "


Can you show me single proof of this.

I want you to prove this to me. The connection and the similarities of people that lived in the region 4000 years ago and todays Kurds.

Whoever lived there 4000 years ago didnt call themselves Kurds and that itself is proof that you are wrong. Dont be stuck in such archaic thoughts.

Turkish E.T. said...

"Black people were brought to America as slaves. You can't take what's convenient for you and leave the whole picture out."

Black people might have been brought as slaves but the end result, the problems, the methodologies matter.

Are you telling me that Americans justified their racism by claiming "these were brought here as slaves" ?

No. They based it on their belief that as a race the blacks were primitive.

How much of this sort of -racism- did you suffer from officially??

NONE.

Yes your language was banned, but were you forbidden from public service? Were you treated as inhuman. Ignorance of a culture is much different than ignorance of human, humanity. And ignorance of humanity is much more severe!

Turkish E.T. said...

I've not seen Duvar... Kurdish culture is NOT transforming in the same speed as Turkish culture is transforming. This is PKK's fault!

The sole reason Turkish security forces are in Kurdistan is because PKK is a bunch of uncontrolled bandits running around and planting bombs and firing on people. Without a central command for a cultural revolution PKK lacks a primary goal. This is too dangerous! "Liberation" is an empty word by itself.

"The police runs prostitution rings and sells drugs."
Corrupt police does this in every country. stop whining and see the truth dude. PKK is deep into drugs too. Too deep you cant deny. And yet I'm here accepting everything you say yet you wouldnt let anything on the mistakes of Kurds, PKK, kurdish parliementers.

PKK plants bombs in tourist busses for fuck sake. For fucking heavens sake. What/who on earth do you think you are defending? Random bandits killing in the name of a sending a message that they're not even sure what? I can see that TSK fits in the description I provided that is why I fucking chose it carefully and yet you still do not accept that the uncontrolled power of PKK is even worse! PKK kills "Ceylan Onkol"s intentionally! Not by leaving a bomb here or there which we know TSK does well since Ergenekon we've been bumping into bombs on the fucking sidewalks. PKK's ceasefire did not exist for fuck sake. They were still attacking and still organizing mass events in towns. Which Kurdish parliementer ever called for peace when there were violent protests made up of mostly kids. Which kurdish parliementer ever told anyone to stop the protests. Which Kurdish parliementer supported the Kurdish initiatives?

You really regard the Turkish state and TSK as too powerful and respect their authority. This is my only impression from this. You see their mistakes as intentional deliberate doings rather than pure shortcomings. I dont think you have ever lived in Turkey dude. People fall into holes on the road here and die. You know. Heavy machinery being trasported falls flat on to a car carrying a family of 6 dude. shit is really wicked here, I know and I'm terrorized just by living in the order of things here after a year, you have got to give us some break.

Anonymous said...

ET
"The sole reason Turkish security forces are in Kurdistan is because PKK is a bunch of uncontrolled bandits running around and planting bombs and firing on people. Without a central command for a cultural revolution PKK lacks a primary goal. This is too dangerous! "Liberation" is an empty word by itself."

I don't even know what to tell you. That is blindly IGNORANT or pure PROPAGANDA at its best. PKK is a REACTION to what TSK and other Turkish security forces have been doing in the region for over 85 years. PKK is less than 35 years old. Go check the dates of massacres. Check Dersim. Here is something on Zilan for you:

http://zarokenroj.blogspot.com/2009/08/zilan-river-massacre-part-1.html

Then there is Palo Genco, Maras, etc... PKK didn't exist then.

Only my language was banned? My songs were translated and presented as Turkish songs along with many things.

"Corrupt police does this in every country. stop whining and see the truth dude. PKK is deep into drugs too."

Total BS. You know, if this was half true, the PKK could never have any ground in a society which you seem to define as backward and macho. You need to be a bit consistent with your scum. Let's talk about your security forces who love to rape dead guerrillas killed in an attack. SICK.

Go read some history about Kurds but try something other than those published by Turk Tarih Kurumu. If nothing read about the Magi.

You call me racist because I am telling you comparing black people in the US with Kurds is not right? Way to go. You should be on Jerry Springer.

You see, I never defended placing bombs into tourist busses. But my problem with you is the following. TSK and Turkish state does thousands fold crap and you overlook them or always have an excuse for them but when a movement not an army which is surrounded by everyone has some of its members act in a similar way, oh they are sooo bad and they get called names. You fascist commander in chief spoke the other night. Did he make you proud?

I am starting to believe you either have multiple personality or there are multiple people using your alias. Just looking as this trail gives me enough to doubt.

"I don't think you have ever lived in Turkey dude. People fall into holes on the road here and die. You know. Heavy machinery being trasported falls flat on to a car carrying a family of 6 dude. shit is really wicked here, I know and I'm terrorized just by living in the order of things here after a year, you have got to give us some break."

Now you started your bullshit again. Let me put it this way. I have had decades of interactions with your racist brainless neanderthal security forces. Yes, I have had more than my share and so did all my friends, family, and relatives. The shit you are trying to sell here won't go. If you are expecting me to feel sorry when one of those bastards die, my sadness would only be because they met an easy end. This is where I part with the PKK. I want your state destroyed. I want the damn system collapse. If I were you, I would pray that PKK can keep a hold of Kurdish people because there are many Kurds out there who want retribution. Yes, if that makes me primitive, then I guess I am, but guess what? Retribution will teach your kind a lesson so that they think twice before they do it to someone else. They got away with way too much for far too long. It's time.

Turkish E.T. said...

We should not get into the details of historical facts of "who did the first blow". Especialy for 2 cultures that go back as far as 5000 years... Lets focus on today. 1* If Kurds had the government power they would do the same to Turks as Turks have done. 2* Proof of this is that any government in existence on earth has done similar things regardless of their culture. If you do not acknowledge this you are simply a racist. Do you want a developed Kurdistan today more than you want Turkey to pay for its historical crimes and suffer and scream in agony? No. You want Turkey and Turks to suffer in pain until you are satisfied... no matter what trauma caused this you are not much different than any officer in Turkish army who is taking revenge for his dead friends in his own way. You are sick.


"PKK is a REACTION"
This says it all. Let me tell you about "ideologies based on reaction" : They are doomed. Do you know why? Because if you are reacting something today, you are applying a counter force. And if that particular something eases, and moves, or changes than you are bound to dissapear too... and we both now that the last thing PKK wants to do is to dissapear. "Live by the sword, die by the sword". Turkey can have a Kurdish president and there would still be PKK. That is why PKK is bad. It is only -counter-. Just like the Kemalist are -counter headscarf- the PKK is simply counter -Kurdish oppression- .. not

And here is PKK Dealing drugs. IF you think this is bullshit too than man you are lost:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article718914.ece
Is Baybasin an agent for Turkish army?? Just stop and see the fucking truth for both sides.


"Let's talk about your security forces who love to rape dead guerrillas "
Man I think you are very confused about my view of the army. I tell you that I am not supporting it. The only thing Im trying to express is that 1) most army personell is there as a mandatory duty. 2) this includes kurds too. 3) the army inflicts major psychological trauma on most people, only in dumb american movies do people want to go back on duty.

"I want your state destroyed. I want the damn system collapse. Retribution will teach your kind a lesson so that they think twice before they do it to someone else. They got away with way too much for far too long. It's time."
You are not worth an answer. Living in America, or England, or Germany or France you ignore what they have done to people, way as recent as the 70s and sentence Turkey to your eternal hatred. I wish you mental health and happiness thats all I really wish. Currently you are a blood thirsty savage.

Anonymous said...

You are really a piece of work. Look, it's the most natural fact. Action bears reaction. People have the right to protect themselves. Besides, don't worry, Kurds are smart enough to think proactively. We don't need you for that so stop giving us advice.

You really think Baybasin was working with the PKK? DUDE, go read more resources. He was working for the Turkish State. Go check the Villas he handed to the generals in the army. Go check his relationship to ex-prime minister Tansu Ciller. Baybasin was Kurdish, yes, but that doesn't make him PKK. Stop your racist views. You state thrives on heroin trade. Go check the news, yes, even Turkish news about how many tanks and armored vehicles were used to transport heroin. How do you think Turkey financed its dirty war against Kurds for so many years???? WHERE did the money come from??? Follow the money.

Besides, you despise and Europe so much but yet you use their mass-media resources to make your petty points? Way to go.

"Especialy for 2 cultures that go back as far as 5000 years..."

It seems I have to teach you simple math. Turks came to the area in 1072. That's hardly 5000 years. Go read the history of your people and then come talk to me. Also check into their life style. They just slaughtered, consumed, raped, and moved on to the next civilization. Look what Chinese had to do to try and stop your kind.

"This says it all. Let me tell you about "ideologies based on reaction" : They are doomed. Do you know why? Because if you are reacting something today, you are applying a counter force."

Dude, you are really short sighted. I know what you are recommending to Kurds. You recommend that Kurds should have bent their neck and just keep silent about one massacre after another. You come here, with no tolerance to any resistance Kurds have, and you tell them to be sheep for slaughter?

"This says it all. Let me tell you about "ideologies based on reaction" : They are doomed. Do you know why? Because if you are reacting something today, you are applying a counter force."

BULLSHIT. If you want an example, go read about Salahaddin. Unless, of course, you were taught Salahaddin was Turkish.

Kurds did have a chance to part from Turks when the republic was formed. They trusted their "brothers in religion" and they were lied to, Turks all of a sudden forgot all the agreements. I also urge you to look at what Fethullah and his movement done when they translated Saidi Kurdi's books.

I am not a racist. In fact, far from it. I want your system and state get a lesson. For your information, state and system don't mean a race or people. Yes of course, as a typical Turk would, you take it as destruction of Turks.

As for your "Ozel Tim" don't expect any compassion from me. As long as your state and system stands untouched, those guys will always be protected. Besides, if you read carefully what I said, I didn't say they should be killed. You jump to conclusions too fast. Why doesn't that surprise me though?

Anonymous said...

"Turkey can have a Kurdish president and there would still be PKK. That is why PKK is bad."

You are ignorant. The moment a Kurd who owns up to his identity becomes a president, PKK would never get any support from the Kurdish people if it were to continue armed resistance. Simple as that. I know you say there are Kurds in the AKP. Well, if you call them Kurds then your view is completely racist, not mine. I don't care about the blood line, I care about identity.

"You are not worth an answer."
Is that why you are typing such long responses filled with attacks and propaganda? :-)

I will point another inconsistency in what you say and what you recommend. You talk against hatred and seem to favor being civilized (that is when Kurds are the question) but why can't you act as you speak?

Let me tell you one final thing. If it weren't for the PKK, you and many like you, would have never acknowledge there are Kurds or there has been the slightest mistreatment of Kurds. You know this is true and I know it drives you insane. I want you to see if you can bear saying this sentence:

"Eastern and South Eastern Turkey is Kurdistan"

After this, we can step up to the second phase of your treatment.

Mizgîn said...

Hi guys.

Just for general info, I doubt very much that Jewish Odysseus is ex-CIA or Fethullahci. Regarding the news at the links you post, JO, there was no Kurdish or PKK round-up in Syria. Firat News contacted both the Syrian government and sources on the ground, and neither knew anything about such a round-up. This is Turkish government propaganda to make the Turks feel good. I have also seen nothing to indicate HPG involvement with the pipeline explosion so let's chalk that one up to a black op by the Turkish government.

As for the shooting in Hatay, I'm not even sure if the victims were Kurds. I haven't seen any comments to that effect. However, they were old people and were apparently shot from a distance of 20 meters in the morning--meaning it was daylight hours. So why is it that Turkish security forces can't tell the difference between old people and HPG guerrillas at 20 meters? Oh, well, I guess no one's going to answer that question because there's been a media gag order issued on the investigation into this trigger-happy stupidity.

The fact is that TSK is terrified of having a clash with HPG and that's why they prefer to shoot villagers instead of guerrillas--it's SO much easier to carry out operations when the victims are unarmed kids (like Ceylan) or elderly.

Hatay is not part of North Kurdistan and, although there are Kurds who live there, I have the feeling the elderly victims in this case may have been ethnic Arabs.

As for "the Turkish culture is based on rape", check out this:

http://www.kurdish-info.eu/News-sid-Kurd-Women-Fight-the-Culture-of-Rape--15008.html

So there . . . aside from that dumbass mayor of Rize. I think YJA-STAR should make a special example of the mayor as well as the government official scum in Siirt--"including an assistant headmaster at a school and an employee of a local police department . . ."

"The Siirt provincial governor, police chief, and local director of education are the ones responsible," according to the BDP lawyer involved with the case. However, YJA-STAR knows exactly how to take care of problems like this.

Turkish E.T. said...

"They just slaughtered, consumed, raped, and moved on to the next civilization. "

I dont find you worth an answer. Such limited view of history is dangerous. I hope you will find the irony in life sometime. I refuse to accept that Turkish culture, or ottoman culture is based on rape any more than the next one. The issue you are referring to, the religion, the cultural backwardness, the social macho structure are all shared by kurdish culture.

Let me ask you a question:

If there was mass voting in Kurdistan today, about seperation from Turkey, and Iraq. Annexation of south and north kurdistan to form a seperate state. How would the kurds of todays Turkey vote? Would they vote for seperation from Turkey?

Turkish E.T. said...

here, Kurdish 6 people brutally rapes a bicycle tourist camping in Van.

http://www.zaman.com.tr/haber.do?haberno=291308&title=tecavuz-saniklarina-linc-girisimi

These are exceptions of course.

But the "Turkish culture" is based on rape as a whole. Right?

poor you.

Anonymous said...

Dude, you bring up ottomans? The kings who killed their own brothers??

How long did you search to find that news? You talk about not looking at blood but you do? What difference does ethnicity make? Show me evidence that rape is a common place thing in Kurdish culture. Besides, also notice, what the public tried to do to those people, why don't YOU mention that sucker?. This is the best come back you have? Really? I won't even dig out Pipa's story for you.

"If there was mass voting in Kurdistan today, about seperation from Turkey, and Iraq. Annexation of south and north kurdistan to form a seperate state. How would the kurds of todays Turkey vote? Would they vote for seperation from Turkey?"

Why don't you guys bring it on and see what happens? Seriously. DTP kicked your asses in Kurdistan. How many municipalities did your party win anyway? Enough of this shit. Kurds want to live with dignity, they don't want to be your pets and they certainly don't want your stupid advice. Go fix yourself irst. Then start belittling other people.

Do you know what Italians say when they are afraid of something? That's my homework for you.

Did you hear what AKP said about reducing the threshold in elections? This is the mentality you guys have. The USA you hate so much has and controls your beloved fethullah.

What's your comment about above post? TC putting children into one of the most notorious prisons in the world. I am curious to see what petty, lame, and disgusting excuse you have for that one.

Oh and you were saying PKK was a ceasefire machine? Read this:

http://www.taraf.com.tr/haber/tc-nin-pkk-ile-gorusmeleri.htm

Your military as well as government have been asking for them.

Have you been practicing loudly saying the word "Kurdistan"?

Anonymous said...

Hey E.T.

You were doubting Kurdish history, right? Here is a brief introduction for you. Read the short articles in here:

http://kurdistan-post.com/modules.php?name=Niviskar&op=listarticles&secid=75

Mizgîn said...

Thanks for reminding me about Muradiye, ET, and how the residents attempted to lynch the rapists twice. I remember watching that on TV.

And that's exactly what should happen with the government-appointed rapists in Siirt--LYNCHING.

Serkeftin!

Turkish E.T. said...

How long did you search to find that news? You talk about not looking at blood but you do? What difference does ethnicity make? Show me evidence that rape is a common place thing in Kurdish culture. Besides, also notice, what the public tried to do to those people, why don't YOU mention that sucker?. This is the best come back you have? Really? I won't even dig out Pipa's story for you.


Anonymous I would never say "rape is a common place thing in Kurdish culture." I just wanted to show you a piece of news that shows a bicycle tourist raped by kurds. There are morons out there that use that piece of news to claim kurdish culture is the reason of it. And they are merely reflections of you.

However you are being ignorant about the problems of Kurdish culture today. I am just saying there are some problems with the Kurdish culture that are similar to some in Turkish culture and yet a bit more severe. For example, there are honour killings in northern Turkey in KAradeniz too. It is very common to the point that they dont even call it honour killings, however this doesnt change the fact that Kurdish culture is entirely based on honour killings. Women are treated as objects, and almost sold by their families to prospective husbands. If this is not true, and if wealthy kurds in the east treat their women similar to those of nonkurdish citizens let me know...

Listen. PKK hires children in the cities to join protest. PKK organizes them to throw stones. PKK pressures stores to close on protest days and threatens those who dont. Jail conditions are awful and it is heartbreaking that a child has to live through it but I'm trying to explain to you that PKK is actually doing nothing to save children from the jail. They are sending them into jail as their own martyrs.


Answer my question about the voting. How do you think they would vote?

To me it doesnt even make sense that they would want to seperate from Turkey. Lifting borders is much more a better solution for all I think.

Anonymous said...

Mizgîn, agreed. Serkeftin!

ET,
"Listen. PKK hires children in the cities to join protest. PKK organizes them to throw stones."

You are REALLY disconnected from the reality. Don't you even read what Cengiz Candar, Oral Calislar, and many others write? These people are surely not PKK supporters. There is a NEW generation out there and they have been subjected to all kinds of bad treatment by Turkish security forces and they absolutely HATE anything that represents the state. Don't you see that?? If anything PKK today is trying to suppress the level of violence. It could escalate very easily.

Here, read about kelle vergisi at the very top:

http://www.taraf.com.tr/nese-duzel/makale-huseyin-oguz-oldurup-kelle-vergisi-aldilar.htm

And now, here is a good summary of how the current system was started. Are you really telling me that this horrific system can be patched and tamed? Read it:

http://www.taraf.com.tr/ayse-hur/makale-turk-kani-tasimayanlar.htm

Berfo

Turkish E.T. said...

Again, tell me something I don't know.

"Are you really telling me that this horrific system can be patched and tamed?"

What do you think is happening right now? Why do you think that gullible kemalists are so against the ergenekon trials? so against anything done by the government. Purely because of this change. the system isnt being patched or tames, it is changing from its roots.

Maybe the criminals will not be punished, some might even lead comfortably rest of their lives with the money they made off peoples blood, but the system is changing and that is what matters. this will prevent from mistakes being made again.

I think the entire issue against AKP is this change in the system and you are only hindering this change by making an uproar about Öcalan's fucking jail cell condition... it's just a lame issue to raise and revolt about among all this change!

Anonymous said...

I can see how you can be irked about Kurds protesting criticism about Ocalan's cell conditions. What you miss, I believe, is that Turkey still doesn't know how to handle him. Is he a political prisoner or is he a prisoner of war. Either way, he must be respected and be given the same rights any other person in captivity has and that's not the case. It's really about respect. The state of Turkey treats him as someone who represents Kurds when it comes to bad treatment. If anything, Kurds are making a stand. Neither you or anyone else cannot convince me about making a stand to the current regime and its representation being wrong. Nothing is a lame issue when a people wakes up from a prolonged sleep. Nothing.

Turkish E.T. said...

"making a stand to the current regime" ??

Man we're not talking about making a stand, a protest, for a change in -regime- .
which is a seperate nonsense by itself, the current -regime- if changed, can only be changed for the worse. there are no better alternatives, even Kemalists accept this truth.

We are not talking about protesting the treatment of Kurds, the existence of Jitem, or any other backwardness which can actually all be attributed to previous regimes. And yet still, instead of protesting anything worth protesting, what do they make a stand against for?

A 13 year old kid hits the streets protesting Öcalan's prison cell conditions! What a cause to stand for!

Are you telling me that this is not PKK's work???

And then DTP members, when asked by the press about children protesting on the street, ie. children throwing stones and molotov cocktails, say:

"there is nothing we can say about a crowd in discontent"

what the fuck? Arent you even going to say "we dont approve children out on the streets protesting" since they are part of the crowd that you represent, that choose you to represent???? that look at you as example. LAme.

and then when the 13 year old lands in one of the most awful prison because of the shortcomings of the system you shed fake tears.

Fuck that. PKK, DTP, BDP, you are as responsible for those kids as is anyone else.

Anonymous said...

Why don't you take the time and go to Amed or Colemerg and talk to those kids yourself? Seriously, it's one of the lamest things ever to blame PKK even for such things.

You are an expert (like many Turkish intellectuals are) in making sure Kurds get blamed for something.

Jitem's existence is being protested every Saturday. But I am upset that many jitem members went unpunished and they will never get punished if left to the state. We all know that. It's the Kurdish people's responsibility to deliver a message on that.

I would love to see Kurds on the street and boycotting everything belonging to the state unless all Kurdish political prisoners are released. That's my stand.

Easy to blame the PKK, DTP, and BDP. It never occurs to you that a 13 year old, when beaten like an adult, can respond as an adult would. But of course, it gives you an opportunity to blame the PKK and that's all good, right?

Let me state something that you probably will never understand. The past 24 uprisings failed and every time Kurds were subjected to massacres. Do you know why they failed? Because the Kurds, at the end, believed in the promises or call for talks Turkey made. You know how the saying goes. Fool me once blame it on yourself, fool me twice... But 24 times? No thanks, not anymore. The history (and data) speak for themselves.

Berfo

Anonymous said...

"What do you think is happening right now? Why do you think that gullible kemalists are so against the ergenekon trials? so against anything done by the government. Purely because of this change. the system isnt being patched or tames, it is changing from its roots."

How? The second man in charge in AKP finally admits that "We failed in assimilating Kurds and there are still Kurds who cannot speak Turkish, it's a shame"??

Read Candar's article. The system isn't changing for good, not for Kurds anyway. If anything, the system is becoming totally indecent with a cover of populist turkish-islam synthesis.

Anonymous said...

"Everyone has to take into account the sensitivities of our citizens who love their motherland"

Mr. Erdogan (and so have many others) said these words when some lunatic fasicst Turks attacked Kurds protesting on the street. Basbug said similar things.

Go screw yourself before you criticise BDP or PKK not saying anything against Kurdish children who absolutely despise the security forces and anything that resembles them.

Mizgîn said...

We're ignorant of the problems of Kurdish culture??? WE are ignorant of the problems of Kurdish culture??! Did you really mean to engage in such condescending racism when you've been trying to present yourself as a "democrat", ET?? I think you better re-think all that.

However, I am happy to see that you've adopted PKK's long-held position on gender equality. Now you just need to adopt PKK's position on maintaining Turkey's territorial integrity--which they've stated a thousand times if they've stated it once in the last four years since the 2006 ceasefire statement--and you'll happily be on the road to our way of thinking.

On the other hand . . .


And then DTP members, when asked by the press about children protesting on the street, ie. children throwing stones and molotov cocktails, say:

"there is nothing we can say about a crowd in discontent"



WTF are you talking about, man? Of course BDP can't control a population that's pissed off. I've got news for you, pal, not even TSK--NATO's second largest army--can control a population that's pissed off, and do you want proof of that? Just check out the last 26 years. Has TSK managed to control the population? Has it managed to keep everybody's family members from going to the mountains?. Shit. TSK can't even control Beytussebap let alone control 30 million pissed off Kurds. And you expect BDP to do it?

HAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well, maybe if you let out of prison all the DTP politicians and political workers and IHD members that your glorious AKP arrested after the elections last year . . .

Here's another news flash for you: PKK DOESN'T PAY ANYONE. PKK DOESN'T HAVE TO PAY ANYONE.

It's a matter of honor to throw a stone for Ocalan or PKK. It's an honor to close shops for Ocalan or PKK. And these kids are already turning prison into an honor, too, from their protesting the horrible conditions. And just so you know exactly where I'm coming from, I'm not crying for them; I'm merely pointing out Turkey's eternal hypocrisy on the matter.

Of course, in a better system, this type of honor would not be necessary.

Never mistake me for someone who is crying all the time about our situation. Such emotionalism is disgusting in the extreme.

Here's how the Turk thinks (a la Gulen): Let's go cry for Palestinians! Let's go cry for Kosovars! Let's go cry for Chechens! Let's go cry for Native Americans! Let's go cry for Uighurs! Let's go genocide the Kurds!

Unless you're a TSK or a korucu or a JITEM or any other official in charge of attempting to control the people or otherwise engage in your violent, racist repression, then you don't have anything to worry about from PKK. What you need to worry about is the authentic, radical, real-life anarchist shit that TAK is going to bring to your front door. And as things get worse, expect the kids on the street to stop throwing stones and flock to TAK. In fact, when they start getting out of prison, expect them to flock to TAK. THAT really should be your worst nightmare.

You'd better pray--and pray hard--that nothing happens to Ocalan, in spite of all of Onder Aytac's posturing. He may seriously believe nothing will happen if something happens to Ocalan but, as you mention, look at all those youths in the streets for Ocalan . . . and TAK is SO devoted to Ocalan . . . .

Since there is absolutely no political avenue to achieve Kurdish rights in Turkey, we cannot be delicate about using a diversity of tactics to smash The System. Now more than ever we need to familiarize ourselves with the Catechism of a Revolutionist and take it to heart.

TBC . . .

Mizgîn said...

Voting? What voting? For that stupid referendum? It does nothing for Kurds so why should Kurds play the toadies of the filthy AKP and vote for their shit. Let me quote you something:


"If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal."


So said Emma Goldman and she was right. To hell with voting! Boycott the referendum! Boycott Turkish racism! To hell with the regime!

Anonymous said...

Hey E.T.

Here is what Ahmet Altan says:

"PKK ended up changing the feudal system in the Southeast [Kurdistan], not the state"

http://www.taraf.com.tr/ahmet-altan/makale-ayrilmak.htm

I thought you may like that.

Also, read this:

http://www.taraf.com.tr/orhan-miroglu/makale-vahseti-kavramak.htm

Your beloved and disciplined TSK is again acting like a mass of wild-dogs.

And also read this:

http://bianet.org/bianet/siyaset/123399-devletin-baris-korkusu

I don't I have to say more after these.

I really recommend you spend sometime in Kurdistan. You may be living in the same country, but I bet you are actually in a different country than Kurdistan.

You guys can go and cry for Serbians but never have the guts to even acknowledge what happens to Kurds in your own country.

Oh and Ertugrul Ozkok would be proud of you for bringing up separation. I am sure Kurds will welcome any solution as long as it gives them opportunity to live with honor.

Mizgîn brings up a VERY important point. Honor and dignity means a lot to Kurdish people. It's an integral part of our culture.

Berfo

Hevallo said...

E.T? Poor chap, obviously a victim of brainwashing and many years of TSK's psychological operations. Just repeating the same old mantra. This part of his mantra though is upsetting.

ET said "Isnt that why women join PKK? ISnt that why weak people run away and join pkk, to find an equality that is not present in their culture?"

I wish he could met, as I did, Gurbetelli Ersoz. A Kurdish graduate and journalist. Working for the Kurdish newspaper, Ozgur Gundem, Gurtbetelli tried to bring attention to Turkey's village clearences during the ninties.

Faced with censorship, imprisonment and worse Gurbetelli, like many Kurdish students, graduates and profesional women left their studies and jobs to join the Kurdish Freedom Struggle.

They like so many before them and after them came to the logical conclusion that Turkey is offering no democratic road for the Kurds and that the only way to gain freedoms is by armed struggle.

It is the PKK that has won those freedoms and it will be the PKK who brings peace to Turkey.

As Haluk Gerger says, "The Kurdish Promise is Peace!"

Despite everything, the Kurdish promise IS peace!

Turkish E.T. said...

"The past 24 uprisings failed"
They didnt fail because you were promised anything, they failed because you were subjected to massacres.


"The second man in charge in AKP finally admits that "We failed in assimilating Kurds and there are still Kurds who cannot speak Turkish, it's a shame"?"
Show me this quote, and I will show you that in context that is not what he said. Read İlter TÜRKMEN's quotes properly. He is actually saying very correct things.

" Everyone has to take into account the sensitivities of our citizens who love their motherland "
You are right about this quote by Erdogan. It is insensitive. But you have to understand that fascist Turks are already breaking the noses of his own ministers. He is in a tough spot even though such a statement was uncalled for, there were many other statements by him saying exactly the opposite, and that such fascist provocators must be caught and stopped.

What "gender equality" stance of PKK are you talking about ? PKK can barely stay alive as far as I know. If training women how to shoot a rifle is gender equality for you, way to go. What a society PKK is for women.

"PKK's position on maintaining Turkey's territorial integrity" is something PKK never explicitly declared.

Ahmet Altan's article is only good where it quotes İlter Türkmen. The rest is crap. He says there were no investments to the east. Dude. Where were there investments? To the south? To KAradeniz? .. its so easy to understand that by WEST he means ISTANBUL only. He talks about a second class kurdish citizens, which is a nonsense suggestion, there is not a single sense in the entire article.


About "Abbas Emani". Single cases like this wont help anyone. You can chase and catch and jail and kill the killers but it would happen again. If the current regime allows it, then it is changing!

And please stop using the Fethullah card here and there. He is a nobody. No effect whatsoever to anything. His age closed with the reference by Baykal. He does not have any effect.

God, you and Kemalists and Fascists and the army. You are like awful cheap reflections of one another.

Turkish E.T. said...

The only thing I could grasp from
http://bianet.org/bianet/siyaset/123399-devletin-baris-korkusu
article is all towards the end:

"...Daha da mühimi, rejim içi kavganın taraflarının Kürt sorununun birbirlerine karşı kullanmasının artık son derece riskli olduğu birtakım eşiklere gelip dayandık. İç savaş eşiği, uluslararası müdahale eşiği, Türkiye'nin bütün Kürtlerle hesaplaşan ve savaşan bir ülke haline gelme eşiği ve A. Öcalan'ın kaçınmaya çalıştığı "devrim" eşiği.....Öcalan, son görüşme notlarından birinde "devletin barıştan PKK'nin ise devrimden" korktuğunu, bunun yıllardır böyle süregeldiğini, şimdi bir müzakere sürecinin ve çözümün gelişmemesi halinde devrimin gündeme gelebileceğini ileri sürüyor.."

Its strange that even Öcalan is saying exactly what I'm saying. That PKK's goals end up being different than its efforts.

I agree that times are very critical. However I dont like believing in horror scenarios. Instead of civil war, I tend to believe that PKK will declare another ceasefire, the referandum in September will pass as a Yes. There will be more referandums which secure the removal of ARMY from JUSTICE. There will be peace in the southeast. Tourism will boom. Kurdish culture will flourish. I think Turkey is going pretty good actually if only these bombs would silence and Ergenekon trials would end with a triumph of sending all deep state officials into jails and exposing how they worked in detail.

I dont expect BDP to -control- anyone. I just expected them to say that "THEY ARE AGAINST CHILDREN THROWING STONES". That children should keep out of this! that is all I expected! If you see those children in the same group as those people who leave their families to join PKK, that you are as wrong as anyone you accuse. Keep children out of trouble is all I am saying, and yet you see them as future recruits to PKK. Disgusting.

Turkish E.T. said...

"
It's a matter of honor to throw a stone for Ocalan or PKK. It's an honor to close shops for Ocalan or PKK. And these kids are already turning prison into an honor, too, from their protesting the horrible conditions."

HONOR? What the fuck? Honor? What's next? Martyrdom? Seriously: Why do you want to sound like a cheap replica of Erdoğan dude? You can bring gullible Kurds tears with your -honor- talk but honestly I'd rather walk around free than get any -honor- by throwing a stone for an Öcalan. Honor in a jail for a child? Dude. Those children need video games and chocolate and a bicycle more than your stupid undefined honor bullshit. So stick your honor up your ass thank you. What kind of a dogma does PKK inflict upon you? It just has the same effect as turkish nationalism or islam. Incredible! HONOR!? Incredible! Its like a movie cliche. Kid throws a stone, goes into jail, gets raped by a kurdish prison guard, understand what he is fighting against was actually himself.

Seriously. Who the fuck are you associating honor with kids throwing stones? Who are you? What do you do? Where do you live? Do you have any effect on these kids?

"You'd better pray--and pray hard--that nothing happens to Ocalan"
Im an atheist thank you. Apparently you believe in Ocalanism and he is your prophet? I stand for life, but to me he is not different than anyone else in jail.


"Boycott the referendum! Boycott Turkish racism! To hell with the regime!"
Very constructive Mizgin! Way to go! I think you should have followed these cries out with a *handgrenade* ! too. That sounds like your style of fixing the system. Very -falcon-like against the -wolf-.... Dont forget to take your medicines with that milk.

"
I really recommend you spend sometime in Kurdistan. You may be living in the same country, but I bet you are actually in a different country than Kurdistan."
Right. I have to be honest, there is no way Im going to Kurdistan with myself screaming around that Im %100 white Turkish. I dont fancy stepping on a landmine anytime thank you. I'll wait for a Kurdistan tours by official tourism companies until I plan a tour. Turkish nationalists were saying the same to me when I Was writing from abroad. That I should come see Turkey without saying anything. Come see how Kurds flooded the cities. So I can stop supporting them. and shit. Internet is powerful enough to give a view of an issue without living there.


"Mizgîn brings up a VERY important point. Honor and dignity means a lot to Kurdish people. It's an integral part of our culture."
Yea. In Turkish too. Martyrdom is also integral part of islam and Turkish culture. Thats why I feel like fucking them all. Turkish culture, islam, Kurdish culture. Take one and hit it on to the other. Stupid century long laws that do bad more than it does good. HONOR? Reminds me honor killings of girls. Martyrdom? is sending a 20 year old kid to the army in defense of a border that is not even being thretened by a so called terorist
. Stupid.


Hevallo: Kurdish scholar Gurbetelli Ersoz researches issues related to Kurdish oppression. Gives up, stops researching. Joins PKK. Dies.
Kurdish singer Delila. Stops singing. Joins PKK. Dies.

Do you see where I am getting with these and what PKK does to Kurdish culture and struggle? Armed struggle is all about dying and mrtyrdom. Its complete bullshit. I'd rather live and research and sing and ride a bike. Which I bet you are doing where ever you live right now.

Anonymous said...

"I have to be honest, there is no way Im going to Kurdistan with myself screaming around that Im %100 white Turkish. I dont fancy stepping on a landmine anytime thank you. I'll wait for a Kurdistan tours by official tourism companies until I plan a tour."

Can you tell me how many "white Turks" have been killed in Kurdistan by Kurds, unless they are security officers? How many of them the public hurt? To the contrary, how many Kurds have been attacked, beaten, stabbed, sliced, in the "Turkish" part of Turkey?

"Turkish nationalists were saying the same to me when I Was writing from abroad. That I should come see Turkey without saying anything. Come see how Kurds flooded the cities. So I can stop supporting them. and shit. Internet is powerful enough to give a view of an issue without living there."

Then why do you keep bringing up people writing from their comfortable homes in USA or Europe? My main problem with you is consistency and sincerity.

Oh, and, such language...

Berfo

Turkish E.T. said...

good point Berfo. Let me tell you why:

The difference is that you are sitting on your ass in Netherlands or England telling your gladiators to fight, kill, fire, bomb.

Whereas I was sitting on my ass in NYC telling my citizens to relax, share the freedom, ease the tension, be understanding towards each other and especially to Kurds who were oppressed in the past...

This difference is big materially.

In essence you are a latte sipping hypocrite and I'm just a hippie.

check this out about electricity in Turkey: http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/gundem/15341885.asp?gid=373

Anonymous said...

"Whereas I was sitting on my ass in NYC telling my citizens to relax, share the freedom, ease the tension, be understanding towards each other and especially to Kurds who were oppressed in the past..."

WERE oppressed in the past? Dude, Kurds cannot even name their own children as they want. You are a disgrace to hippies by claiming to be one as you can't give up on catering to your "supreme" Turkish side however subtle that may be.

I never advocate killing. I am, however, a firm believer of self-defence.

Forget electricity, if you are truly a democrat or a hippie say one freaking word about the Turkish state setting Kurdistan's forests on fire. Man, Munzur, Judi, Kato, Merdin, it's all on fire. And.. I AM a hypocrite?! Well, I will continue to be one then.

Berfo

Turkish E.T said...

fire sounds bad but I dont believe the state is doing it intentionally. out of question. You are being absolutely cynical by thinking its the state who does it intentionally. And its awfully wrong to do so since we all know that Turkish government already blames PKK for several fires in the Aegean and since PKK already has an "eye for eye" policy regarding these... "If they set our forests on fire, we must set their forests on fire." ...

just relax. it is fire. soldiers did help. it is easy to shoot down a soldier who is trying to put out a flame. guns bring a lot of complexity to the region that is all Im begging you to understand.

Anonymous said...

Out of question??? Dude, you are truly out of touch with reality. I have seen with my own eyes how military sets forests on fire. My OWN eyes.

Let's say for a second that your argument is true. The soldiers don't want to put off the fire they start because they can get shot (sounds really stupid because PKK would never shoot anyone putting off the fire). Why in the earth they would prevent the villagers from going and putting off the fires?

Even the Turkish reporters are admitting now that TSK is burning forests.

"PKK already has an "eye for eye" policy regarding these..."

Unfortunately for all of us, this is the only thing that works when dealing with the Turkish state. Turkish state is just like a bully. No more, no less.

You are really foreign to turkey's history and policies. Compare Amed's financial situation in 1800s to today. I also tell you about Bursa. The only investments in Kurdistan has been building of dams which don't give water to Kurdish farmers. Those dams are built to destroy, not to nourish Kurdistan.

Berfo

Turkish E.T. said...

"I have seen with my own eyes how military sets forests on fire"

well theres nothing I can say to this. you win.

Jewish Odysseus said...

Maaahhhhh goodness, I haven't checked this blog for a while, and look at what I missed...

I really can't add anything useful to the drubbing of TET that's occurred here, but I need to clarify one thing: I do not, and I never have, worked for nor assisted in any way, the CIA, nor any other govt agency. Why wd someone charge me w/it? Esp. when there is no evidence behind it? It's almost like they think that by making an inflammatory charge they can smear and discredit me.

Oh, well.

The funny thing is, I've known Mizgin for years online, we disagree STRONGLY about many, many issues, but I can say that EVENTS have proven her 100% correct about the nature of the modern Turkish state, AND the "Deep State," AND it's inherent, organic incompatibility with freedom and dignity for the Kurds. In the beginning, when we first corresponded, I was much more optimistic--a little like TET--about the chance of reforms within Turkey, but sorry to say, EVENTS have proved my optimism infounded, and vindicated Mizgin's view absolutely.

And by EVENTS, I mean: facts. Reality. What actually happened in the real world. For example, the numerous arrests, persecutions, harassments, and prosecutions of Kurdish legislators ELECTED UNDER TURKEY'S OWN SYSTEM.

Didn't Bertolt Brecht write something like, "The people have rejected the Party, so the Party must replace the people." The Turks don't like the Kurdish legislators produced under their own system...So they reject them.

Mizgin is right, and TET is wrong.

Turkish E.T. said...

I can swear I read somewhere about your work with CIA or the defense department. I guess I was wrong.

I dont agree with your hopelessness. Look at America in the 50s and way into the 60s and you'll see how hopeless black american's were in their fight. This have changed as a result of a stable republican democracy, step by step, slowly, and with the power of the media.
Republican democracy is what we have in Turkey and it will change things over time... unless america doesnt want it so. Thats the only difference.

The only difference Turkey and any other democracy has over America is that America does not have a superpower that governs its internal affairs. You have no paranoia of anyone outside controlling your government. Whereas Turkey is always under the paranoia of Kurds being supported by USA and Israel, and Kurds use the same against Turkey. America is a great example of how a democracy can work, but it is not a great teacher on how to make it work. The only thing that works American democracy is the wealth. you are being ruled by the ultra rich, and things are fine in your country as long as everyone (and I mean everyone) can afford an Ipod. When the money flow will stop, and you'll see how the filthy rich have fooled you, your country is destined to loose. because it deserves to loose. I love America and Americans yet I just cant believe what america represents outside of america. Its all ignorance and exploitations and all Banana Republic.

Your country has flooded the world with more ammunition than the world can handle. You supplied Taliban weaponry against the russians. You even made a hollywood movie with rambo fighting along cute talibani heros. You supplied al qaeda weaponry, you supported and still support the worst system the world has ever seen in Saudi Arabia. And you really have not paid for these mistakes not even a little bit. You have not paid for the nonsense invasion of Iraq which killed thousands of civilians for a WMD that did not even exist. You have not paid for supporting Taliban against the russians, who turned the country into a 5th century savageness in 10years. Forget about paying for these, you benefited from all these. Look at Iraq and the contractors there. Look at Saudi Arabia and the price of oil in USA. Turkey borders Iraq, Iran. Syria and yet we still have the worlds 3rd most expensive gas in our cars.

and now what gives you the right to step up to the podium and have anything to say about our morals and our ethics? How dare you show a picture of a 19year old kid who died with 6 bullets in his body and declare that he was a islamist militant. I'm an atheist but I pray to god that he will show your ignorance up your ass. You might feel special but you are nothing different than your usual religious pervert from Florida. You dont deserve any attention. Turkey and its system will change but your racism, your hatred and refusal for understanding will not change. You feed on others mistakes.

Turkish E.T. said...

"...EVENTS: numerous arrests, persecutions, harassments, and prosecutions of Kurdish legislators ELECTED UNDER TURKEY'S OWN SYSTEM... "


Yes. What these events have in detail is this:

-As a system, we do not support those who support the so called -terrorists-
-Kurdish legislators were publicly seen supporting PKK in many sites around Turkey
-As a result a case was filed to the Constitutional Court for the closing of the kurdish party.
-Turkish intellectuals were absolutely against the closure of such a party and were expecting even worse than the terrorism now, not just the cancellation of the ceasefire upon the closure of the party but many more chaotic events around Turkey. Many Turkish intellectuals were violently and publicly against the closure of the party.
-Under the current system, the case was reviewed and the party was closed. The closure was done only because it was the right thing to do according to the current system.

Now, what if the legislators were Islamic? And they supported Al Qaeda publicly in their organizations, publicly, with Al Qaeda leaders in Turkey and in Afghanistan? What if the party was supported by the islamists?

The result would have been the same. But I doubt that a hypocrite fuck like yourself would be as sad about it as you are now. Since you have the guts to put a 19 year old kids photo from the Mavi Marmara victims on your site and make fun of him sarcastically, I dont think you view them as worth of human dignity.

But regardless of the islamic nature of the party supporting islamists terrorists, the result would have been the same. As a matter of fact, the entire system, constitution, is based on the threat of islamists, and the precautions within the system is being used against the Kurds.

I remind you: Both Al Qaeda and PKK are declared as terrorist organizations by USA and Turkey. They do not have any difference according to the system.

Now. After September 12,2010. These precautions will no longer be as strong is the public votes "YES" in the referendum for the change. What is interesting is that most Kurdish leaders call for a "No" in these votings, these changes in constitution that would make it harder for their party or any other party to be shut down.

in short: Fuck off. I dont have time to waste on ignorant and hateful brains like yours. You dont belong anywhere between Kurdish and Turkish relations.

Jewish Odysseus said...

You blame American imperialism for all your problems...America had NO POWER IN THE MIDEAST until the 1950's, are you saying relations between Turkey and the Kurds were fine before then? Are you saying the Turks hadn't incinerated tens of thousands of Kurds by burning their villages to the ground in the...1920s...1930s...1940s? What is your excuse for that barbarism?

Did or did not Pres. Kemal betray the Kurds after they helped him drive out the Brits?

BTW, Mr. Non-Interventionist, you know Turkey helped the Bolsheviks consolidate their regime? Gee, that only worked out to ~80 million civilians murdered by Kemal's Bolshevik pals. And we all know about the Armenians...and the Greeks...Maybe Turkey is getting a little Kharmic payback?

And Mr Anti-Terrorist, you might want to send a telegram to your PM that he is openly supporting a terrorist group in Gaza (Hamas). Remember those guys, who were busy 3 summers ago throwing their Palestinian Fatah brethren off of high buildings? That's the gang that Erdogan and those flotilla-thugs support.

Oh, and thanks for bravely admitting that your accusation against me was based on nothing more than a pathetically-weak "I thought I read it somewhere..."

For someone who has no time for me, you sure spend a lot of time on me.

Turkish E.t. said...

Let tell you a version of history that could have happened then:

On Thursday, December 1, 1955, Rosa Parks refuses to give up her seat in a bus for a white person and gets arrested.

Turkish intelligence officers contact leaders in south america and convince them that an armed resistance would be the only way to achieve their rights and tells them they can sell bulk of them for cheap.

Black Americans form an armed resistance against the government that lasts many years.

Impossible? Thats what america has been doing to the world for years. You fucked up south america, landed your own fucking cia supported private armies there for fuck sake. You fucked up Afganistan, Saudi Arabia, Iraq. And now you have the face to come here and have anything to say?

I think you're confused. I dont blame America for Turkish oppression on Kurds. I blame you for your crocodile tears and worsening things way beyond repair.
...


On the other hand therea re good things. Many of the things I have been speaking above have started appearing in news in Turkey. For Example BDP is fighting against the clan order in Kurdistan now:
http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/gundem/15404957.asp?gid=373

And many politicians openly voice that votes in Kurdistan for a seperate state wouldnt even pass 3%.

If there is no foreign intervention I believe that the Kurdish issue and will be solved in 5 years.

Turkish e.t. said...

Pres. Kemal betrayed İslamists , the Kurds and many other minorities. there is no point in mentioning it.

"Turkey helped the Bolsheviks consolidate their regime"
Yes in return they had halped Turkey in the war of independence. There are statues of 2 russian generals behind atatürk in the center of istanbul.


About Erdogan meeting with Hamas.
1) Hamas is democratically elected. Like it or not they are the only official contact.

2) when I said "..As a system, we do not support those who support the so called -terrorists-..." I didnt mention that I or anyone else should support this system. I dont even believe in the word "terrorist" The word itself is completely void of meaning. A demonized blank concept. So Erdogan or anyone is free to meet Hamas, PKK or even Al Qaeda in my book. As long as they dont accept their islamic agenda its all cool to me to meet and listen.

3) On the other hand the current system is unfortunately so in Turkey and in America. That is why DTP was closed and I think it will not be closed in the future.

Jewish Odysseus said...

"Hamas is democratically elected. Like it or not they are the only official contact."

A--Tell it to Abu Mazen...

So, Hamas really didn't carry out a putsch in Gaza on 6/15/07, where they fired RPGs and mortars into the homes of Fatah honchos, and threw others off of buildings, and shot others in their hospital beds? Gee, I must have dreamed it.

B--All those Kurdish legislators were democratically elected--elected WITHIN the Turkish system, according to the rules of the Turkish system. Yet because they exercise their freedom of speech, they are arrested/prosecuted by Turkey, nullifying the will of the Kurdish voters. And you support this persecution!

Jewish Odysseus said...

"Pres. Kemal betrayed İslamists , the Kurds and many other minorities. there is no point in mentioning it."

Thank you for proving with just 17 little words just how clueless you are about this dispute.

Anonymous said...

@ TET "Turkish intelligence officers contact leaders in south america and convince them that an armed resistance would be the only way to achieve their rights and tells them they can sell bulk of them for cheap."

If you are referring to Kurdish resistance, you are wrong again. Kurdish uprisings have began LONG time ago and if you check the history, you will see that the western powers (mainly Britain at the time) have helped Turks in their massacres.

Anonymous said...

Hey TET, you say Hamas is elected. good point. Why can't you have the same affection for the elected Kurdish officials? over 1444 of them were arrested within less than 12 months. If someone were to act like you, you would name them a racist in a heartbeat. WTF are you then? Cybergladio? :-)

Berfo

Turkish E.T. said...

Berfo go and read what I wrote:

DTP was closed as part of a system. Unlike your anarchic PKK, Turkish government has a system. A democratic judicial system unfortunately has the shortcoming that once a process is put into work, it cannot be stopped.

So, DTP's case was put in, and since all the supporting evidence was there, that DTP met with PKK publicly, it was closed. It was closed even though noone with a sane mind in Turkey wanted it to be closed. Thats how turkish democracy is for now, shit happens infront of your eyes without being stopped, like the kids going to jail, or torturers walking free.

But it is all changing.

However, DTP strangely doesnt support the bill that would prevent its closure.

Whats more confusing is that you probably dont even support DTP. I mean you care about them, but you dont see them as representative of Kurds do you? you just care when their party is shut however its not like they do anything effective in the parliement for Kurds?

Turkish E.T. said...

Anonymous. I know there were kurdish uprisings without foreign intervention. And kurdish uprising and the will for kurdish identity is above foreign intervention. However all Im trying to say is that this situation was solved in your favor had Turkey been a country free of foreign influence.

The geo-politic situation of Turkey and Kurdistan is far too important to be a Turkish issue only. And no bible-American can give me an advice on these matters with his feeble mind.

Anonymous said...

E.T. "However, DTP strangely doesnt support the bill that would prevent its closure."

This is exactly what people like you don't get. What does the change say? The parliament will vote for closure. Do you REALLY think DTP can escape closure? Unless the 10% crap is removed (to which AKP resists passionately) people like you will keep saying DTP/BDP doesn't represent Kurds. Who the hell does? Erdogan who tells Kurds "those who don't like can leave"? It pisses me off that you guys see the right in yourselves to decide who can and cannot represent Kurdish people. Just back off and let Kurds decide, dammit. Take your freaking police, soldiers, and korucular with you too.

"A democratic judicial system unfortunately has the shortcoming that once a process is put into work, it cannot be stopped."

You are joking right? A democratic judicial system? REALLY??? Dude, everyone in Turkey knows the judicial system is anything but democratic and judicial. It's only a power mechanism.

Berfo

Turkish E.T. said...

It takes an 8 year old kid to understand that the current system in Turkey is corrupt.

However you have to be absolutely crazy to say that the proposed bill is not a major improvement over the current constitution.

Mind you, DTP does not oppose the proposed bill because its backwards. DTP opposes the bill merely because the little changes -they- have suggested were not implemented. Everyone agrees that the proposed bill is an improvement and yet DTP acts like your usual opposition and opposes merely to oppose. "scratch and renew" is not the way to go with the propositions. CHANGE is already difficult enough in Turkey. I find it puzzling for you to not see this thing which you are already mentioning.

The system is corrupt. Change has to be done. Change can only be done slowly. Otherwise military grenades turn out in slums around Turkey as has happened. Change is in place.

The current bill will prevent Ferhat Sarıkaya's from being banned from duty. For me, that itself is a reason it should pass. It must pass!

Again, I ask you: Do you even see DTP as a representative of Kurds and kurdish identity?

Anonymous said...

Turkish ET can be easily disproven by single things here. One of them being: The living standard of people living in Diyarbakir as opposed to the living standard of people living in any other major Turkish city.

Ferhat Tunc was jailed for having ideas on how to solve the Kurdish issue. Like many others, he was jailed for having an idea of how to solve the issue. I only have one question for TET - How many Turkish intellectuals, journalists, artists etc ( and we both know many have had opinions on Kurdish issue... Hell even whole NGOS have had their road maps on solving Kurdish issue)have been jailed during the period of Erdogans '' Kurdish initiative''?

The guy who lynched Ahmet Turk, breaking his nose on open TV, was released with a bill of mereily 4000 Turkish Liras, as far as i remember. Yet a Kurdish kid who throws a stone at a police officer, or a Kurdish girl who walks pass at a demo gets imprisoned in worst conditions for years.

When Kurds lynch MHP buildings or AKP buildings, they are met with heavy security forces, heavy beatings, heavy tear gas... Heck even heavy rains of bullets. When Turkish nationalists lynch BDP buildings or DTP buildings the Turkish police are standing there just looking, from time to time you can hear the Turkish police officer telling the Turkish nationalist who is about to smash the office windows and lynch the BDP party sign '' Arkadaslar, sakin ol, lutfen sakin ol''... Only thing they really need is a pleasant seat and some pop corns.

Yet, you, you whom pretends to be democratic have the guts to tell us that Kurds are not treated as second rank citizens... HELL, forget about second rank. We are not even regarded as human beings. Ataturk infiltrated the Turk. Ataturk made the Turk turn into a savage. The Turk is a savage. But not like an average savage. You can call the Turk a werewolf savage. Only when someone is about to turn away from the system, turn away from Ataturks system, then the Turk will go savage. When a real Ataturkci Mehmetcik encounters a guerilla body, the first thing that comes to his mind is spitting on the body. But the savagery inside him tells him to rape it, burn it, mutiliate it then behead it. This savage spirit lives inside a majority of Turks. Even you. You might get offended. But do you know how I can see it? Because you can not accept to be defeated. You can not accept that PKK defeated the Turkish state without ever going to war with it. Without ever really raising its hand. PKK defeated the Turkish state, the turkish system, Ataturk and the capitalist-imperialstic system with just raising one single finger. PKK defeated the Turkish system even though the whole world stood behind that system. You are desperately trying to cathegorize PKK as terrorists. But deep inside your heart, you are glad that PKK is PKK and that it never used terror in its way to defeat the system. It never used Talban, Al Qaeda, Hamas, Hezbollah like methodes to gain its victory. It did it on an almost-french fine way. Not too many casualties, not too many mistakes. PKK is the reason that a human being like you and other Turkish intellectuals can criticize turkish military. PKK is the reason that there is just remotely democratic means in Turkey. Could you imagine doing these things before 1980? Before the creation of PKK? I hardly do believe that.

Anonymous said...

Turkish ET said "Again, I ask you: Do you even see DTP as a representative of Kurds and kurdish identity?"

This bullshit keeps coming up. Yes, because 5 million Kurds feel it does. Who the hell are you to make that judgment? Now let's expose more of that miserable white-turk deception (fethullahci eat that up too) about the number of DTP votes and whether DTP represent Kurds.

They say DTP gets ONLY about 5 millions of Kurdish votes. Their reasoning is that there are about 18-20 million Kurds living in Turkey. Fair enough. Now, let's think how many Kurds are eligible to vote. To my knowledge a child below 18 can't vote in Turkey. If we consider majority of the Kurdish population is very young, that probably doesn't even leave but about 8 Million Kurds who can vote. I would also doubt all of those eligible to vote participate in the voting process. 8 Million eligible people and 5 million votes for dtp. Say 4 million. That's already 50% (EASILY). If you take out the korucular (I and most Kurds don't consider those jash as Kurds) the number shoots up high. Let's add to that the cheating the turkish state and government play in elections in Kurdistan. The ratio of Kurds who vote for DTP is therefore over 50%. Show me ONE turkish party that has the same ratio of votes. one.

Really, do you still have face value to ask if DTP/BDP represent Kurds? Do you even THINK independently before you speak or you just keep repeating the shit your masters tell you?

Berfo

Turkish E.T. said...

Anonymous. Everything you say are motivative snacks for politic hooligans. They might be true but they dont touch any subject. Yes a lot of Turkish and Kurdish intellectuals, journalists, artists, were jailed during the period of Erdogans "Kurdish initiative". The question is , was it more than the previous periods, when there was no "Kurdish Initiative? NO. It was not more than the previous periods. And the only way to finish something is to start doing it. The Kurdish initiative has merely started, you cant expect a social problem this size to be solved in a year and yet DTP, MHP and every other fool has lost their hope in the initiative within months! What started the initiative is that there is a need for it! Even if there were no action plan 3 years after it has started that would still not make the inititive invalid. Because it is always better than not having an inititive!

Yes. Unfortunately Turkish security is not so tough on Turkish nationalists as it is tough on Kurdish demonstrators. But this is also a result of broader problems, it is not a problem, you cant adress this issue before addressing the terrorism, the kurdish rights or any other important aspect of this.

Anonymous, I quote from what you wrote:

"....We are not even regarded as human beings.... The Turk is a savage. But not like an average savage. You can call the Turk a werewolf savage."

Man. Do you see how you treat Turks? Im not even going to explain once again that "who started first" isnt important. You behave just like the ones you accuse. You call a werewolf savage to those you accuse of not treating you as human beings.... Just go away. Again; yıkıl karşımdan. This problem is a political problem caused by politics in a very volatile region of earth. It is not a racial problem. And you are not ready to understand this yet.


Berfo I think you got me wrong, I may not think that DTP is the correct representative of Kursd however the reason I asked is because I Was curious on your final opinion. The math dont matter. The average Turk sees its politician as not a representative but a higher person, they think of them as corrupt liars and yet regard them as important people. I wondered if this is the same with Kurds.

You do realize that DTP is mocking the "Kurdish bill" and opposes the changes in the constition even though both are 100% clearly in the benefit of Kurds, no matter how effective they are, or how much more effective they could have been in optimal scenarious. As they are, they benefit Kurds and DTP opposes them, violently... Is this democracy?

Anonymous said...

ET@

You keep using the same rethoric. When I say there is a problem with the Turk, you say I am a racist. When I say there is a problem with Kurds in Turkey, you say that it is what Turkey is about. You keep mentioning that this was not only done to the Kurds. That is true. It was done to the Armenians, Greeks etc. But never, I repeat, never was it done to the Turk. Never was it done to the Turk that accepted Ataturk. And this is why the modern day Turk resembles the old day Nazi. Seeing him/herself as something that is higher standed than the ''poor, uneducated Kurd that PKK is taking advantage of ( this was what you said, not me, in an earlier post).

About the initiative... Are you just plain dumb? Ok, let me draw a scenerio for you.

Turks are oppressed in the same fascon as Kurds in a country called Kurdistan. New, Islamic, Kurdish prime minister tells his Turkish ''brothers in Islam'' : Hey brothers, i am here to solve your problems. Every Kurd will gain their right. I will take you seriously. I will do whatever it takes to make you equal citizens again.

Kurdish prime minister wins the hearts and votes of the Turks.

Kurdish prime minister starts an initiative. He allows the broadcasting of broken Turkish and allows the teaching of Turkish in Istanbul.

It seems Kurdish prime minister is like all the other prime ministers. On new years eve, Turks again are killed in brutal ways. The Turks' main party gets closed. Turkish politicians get rounded up. The Turkish initiative changes name to Democratic initiative. A refendum turns up. In reality the referendum does nothing for Turks, not directly at least.

Now, as a Turk, how much faith would you have, in the future, for this initiative? Please, just try to see it if it was done to Turks in the same way. BDP is boycotting the referendum. Note that. They are not saying yes, nor are they saying no. They are boycotting it because it is silly and does nothing, directly, to the countrys 20 million Kurds.

Besides, when you say that MHP and BDP are losing hope for the initiative then note also that Erdogan never invited or had a meeting with either of the parties, calling them '' fuel for terror''. Rather, it is Erdogan losing hope in BDP ( 5 million Kurds, at least) and MHP ( millions of Turks).

As I have said, no Turks ( other than a few) are standing up for the Kurds. This is why the Kurdish initiative never really will become serious. I mean WHO CARES!? The main Kurdish party got max 5 million votes... The rest do not really care. So, as Kurds, we do not really care about what happend in the past. We want this solved, and we want it solved NOW, before the next massacre turns up, before the next civil war turns up, before the Turkish and Kurdish people will forever stay arch enemies ( like the Indians and Pakistanis). Forces inside Turkey and outside Turkey wants to create ethnic barriers that will last forever. PKK is trying to avoid this by saying they do not want to seperate, rather they want to make Turkey democratic.

Anonymous said...

But seriously, let us cut the crap already. You want to appear as a democrat. You want AKP to appear as a democratic party. You want the referendum to appear as paving way to a bigger democracy. You want Erdogan to appear democratic.

I will tell you some episodes, even some personal ones, that will shut your mouth once and for all.

1) AKP tried to win the votes of Kurds in far eastern regions by giving them komur and makarna ( coal and pasta). As Siri Sakik said : '' Mr president, this is not Africa''.

2) AKP tried to win the hearts of Tunceli/Dersim inhabitants. Everyone in Turkey knows how important Tunceli is, since the city has the highest rate of educational citizens. In other words, Tunceli is the brain of Turkey. He tried to win the Tuncelis with washing machines and other beyaz esye.

3) In my village in Konya in Turkey the mukhtar is given special priviligies and services if he makes sure that the villagers vote for AKP. The mukhtar lives twice as healthy a life as other in my village. He must make sure to give out of the services to those who vote for AKP. And make sure not to give anything to those who vote for other parties, specially BDP. I am sure this does not only happen in my village. We all heard about the sudden increase in weapons, korucus etc. all over the Eastern provinces especially about election time.

4) AKP probably also ordered the burnings of the several thousands of votes in Agiri and Istanbul. Just the amount of votes that would make them win the elections in these cities.

As a Kurd ( and i am sure i am not alone on this one) i have lost total faith and credibility in both AKP and Erdogan and the initiative. These people whom, with dirty tricks, tries to win the hearts of the Kurdish people, they are not to count on. And then they say things like '' but oh we have so many Kurdish MPS''... Yes, congratulations, how many have ever spoken Kurdish in the parliament? How many have ever openly regarded themselves as Kurdish? How many of them have ever said a word whenever Kurdish chilren got killed, villages and forests burned etc...

AKP is the most anti-democratic party Turkey yet has seen. Not even MHP and CHP, when in power, have used such dirty tactics.

Anonymous said...

ET "This problem is a political problem caused by politics in a very volatile region of earth. It is not a racial problem."

I cite these in return.

1. "Muhtac oldugun kudret damarlarindaki asil kanda mevcuttur" (the strength you need is in the noble blood flowing through your veins)

2. "Kahraman irkima bir gul" (smile at my hero race)

3. "Turkum dogruyum caliskanim" (I am a turk, I am true, I am hard worker)

It is NOT a race problem? Jackass.

Anonymous said...

Turkish ET: "You do realize that DTP is mocking the "Kurdish bill" and opposes the changes in the constition even though both are 100% clearly in the benefit of Kurds, no matter how effective they are, or how much more effective they could have been in optimal scenarious. As they are, they benefit Kurds and DTP opposes them, violently... Is this democracy?"

I see your argument and the similar ones too. But let me tell you that this whole situation is not not so different than someone who is captive and chained. All that is being offered is to loosen the tight cuffs a little. Kurds are opposing to the cuffs and don't want anyone to loosen them, they want to break them. If the whole thing was serious just a little bit, the quota for elections would have been changed. Heck, the whole election system should have been revamped. But it's not. Kurds have asked something to work with and that they didn't get.

Let me tell you one more thing. it doesn't matter how much of patching is made. Rules and laws in Kurdistan are always bent. Heck laws are bent when it comes to Kurds any time. I am sure you have read what is happening in Serzan Kurt's case. So, it's moot point whether you patch that constitution or not. The first three items of the constitution that cannot be changed gives enough leverage to the Turkish race-based state to do whatever it wants. The same constitution has been patched before you know.

Kurds don't want a Buyuk Agabey hand them a few bread crumbs and tell them not to ask questions just trust him. Well, Kurds don't want that and they want to exist with their dignity. So, yes, boycott is the best statement to make. Heck, if it were up to me they would have been boycotting the education system long time ago.

Yes BDP politicians make mistakes and yes I am not supportive of some stupid things some of them say at times (like Hasip Kaplan's response to Ertugrul Ozkok). But you can be assured that the serious decisions are being discussed thoroughly. Not everything is at it appears in Turkish media. There is a great deal of politics involved in the whole thing. It comes down to this simple fact. Kurds have no reason to trust the Turkish government. Not after all that has been happening.

Berfo

Turkish E.T. said...

"It was done to the Armenians, Greeks etc. But never, I repeat, never was it done to the Turk. "

ha.ha.ha. anonymous, welcome to democracy brother! The tyranny of the majority! go read! it has been this way since the greeks, since the romans!

the trick is to balance the tyranny, and give voice and power to the minority so all are equal. when all is not equal of course the sunni muslim atatürkist heterosexual male Turk will be the dominant one.

"modern day Turk resembles the old day Nazi." no it does not. again, tyranny of the majority.


"It seems Kurdish prime minister is like all the other prime ministers. On new years eve, Turks again are killed in brutal ways. The Turks' main party gets closed. Turkish politicians get rounded up. The Turkish initiative changes"

Again anonymous, do you know why? BECAUSE of the judicial democracy that we live in. A "prime minister" is not "a dictator" is not "a tyrant" he is just a prime minister. He can push things, laws, policies, change but he cant create them. This is democracy! Things happen slowly! Because of the principles of seperation of powers. Law, constitution, the police, the government are all seperate entities that need to cooperate. Even the main opposition needs to cooperate.

Prime minister promises. Gathers a team to analyze the problem and act. The solution involves 1-giving more rights through legislative means 2- educating the task force on treatment of civilians, giving them more means of control, giving them a better pay? 3- make sure that the constition allows for the giving of more rights if not modify the parts such as the closure of political parties 4- cooperate with the army to ensure that it acts only in legitimate ways and many many more steps.


You are just like a kid acting as if just because AKP and Erdoğan promised stuff they will happen with the snap of a finger! Democracy unfortunately runs slower, because there are counter forces, there is the army, there are racist groups that can get a gun and kill anyone on the street, the police force is not educated and are indeed traditionally tightly integrated with army and also dark forces. All have to be taken care of for there to be an absolute reform! It needs time!

Turkish E.T. said...

Anonymous: "3) In my village in Konya in Turkey the mukhtar is given special priviligies and services if he makes sure that the villagers vote for AKP"

all voting is done anonymously. This cannot be a policy.

If you have "have lost total faith and credibility in both AKP and Erdogan and the initiative" you will be proven wrong in about 2 years... Just wait 2 years. In 2 years I will watch you come back here and declare loudly, that you were indeed wrong, that AKP indeed gave Kurds all that they deserved. You just cannot follow the detailed steps that are required to solve this riddle, this knot. You think just pulling the ropes would be enough.

Anonymous, . "Turkum dogruyum caliskanim" , every nation has such statements. Turk in this case was thought of an upper identity I believe. Such as that of americans. I mean there had to be one word to define you and me in unity and that happened to be Turk. Shit that happened between turks and kurds sort of made it impossible to be treated the same way as "American" not, but alas, I wouldnt mind removal or to find a new word.

Berfo, your pessimist ramblings are boring. Nobody is talking about a "Buyuk Agabey", the election system will be revamped soon I guess but I dont know how soon. The current handful opposition already mixes up things, the dynamics would change in a way that the country cannot handle currently. NOT NOW. Same with the immunity, same with everything else, first the constitution, than the judicial system, then security and enforcement of law, the economics, and then will come a way to secure the system with the removal of immunity and introduction of a multi party parliment.

Again, there are countries in state that is much worse than Turkey in the world. I mean think about Brazil, chaos and crime on the streets is part of daily life. Corruption of the government there is at a stage that is just not solvable. In Turkey the only people with guns are the PKK and the army thank god. The only problem Turkey has seems to be the Kurdish issue right now and by now everyone that wants good living in Turkey, is aware that it must be solved. So I give it 2 years.

Anonymous said...

Bah, I feel like going in circles with you. You keep mentioning all other countries has done this and that and come up with lose cliches about demoracy. Listen, I never expected AKP to solve anything, but they could at least have changed a bit from the past governments and not round up politicians and keep oppressing the minorities like never before. They could have lied without being brutal.

And yes, I am not lying, that is a policy that AKP is going with. Givings services in exchange for votes. It is not so perfect and pink as you think. And I love how you neglect the other non-democratic methods your AKP is campaigning with. But oh well, neglection is a part of your identity I suppose.

Your ignorance is incredible. No one else in Turkey has guns? Dude, everyone in Turkey has guns + the village guards.

Anonymous said...

ET "In Turkey the only people with guns are the PKK and the army thank god."

And your deep state branches and the rest of the serseri.

You have the guts to come here and give examples of states in much worse situations? Piss off, man. Classical Turkish bullshit when it comes to their injustice. But look there is this country. Why should we care about Brazil? We have a problem with your fracked up state, not with Brazil. If we cared what the hell Brazil does we wouldn't be having these issues with your irk, would we?

Your beloved big agabey is at it again. Shit flows out of his mouth, yet AGAIN. Yes, I am pessimist and boring because I won't buy into your bullshit or trust you. You know why? Because I believe in friendship of peoples should NOT be on the terms set by the oppressing side. So, I will continue being negative and boring until the day comes.

You are coming here and telling us that the country is not ready for reducing the 10%? You know, that's a classical BS all the fascists (MHP loves that shit too) always say. The country isn't ready for this and that. Who the hell are you to decide in the expense of Kurdish people? If Turkey can't handle reducing the 10% shit then you know what a sensible person should say? Inceldigi yerden kopsun. Perhaps Turkey doesn't deserve to exist anymore.

You don't get it, like many Turks like you, however "democrat" they may be. We don't want your petty advice and we are not interested in being brothers. You don't want to help? Fine, get out of the way.

Berfo

Turkish E.T. said...

all I was trying to say is that once terror is resolved there is no serious issue to face in Turkey.

and also since even human rights organization has deemed 10% as -not a violation- of human rights it is not necessary.

You are completely bullshitting and relying on fantasy. First of all how much would 10% need to be lowered to? 7% as is in some countries? 5%? or do you want the Turkish parliament to be crowded with 20-30 parties and let chaos rule?

Only one additional party has a chance of entering the parliament if the 10% was lowered to 5%. Democratic Party (DP) . Why do you want DP to enter to much with merely 5.4% vote?

or is there a reason you want independents in there with 5.24% ?

or let me guess, you really would love to see Cem Uzan in there with his 3% right???

you are out of your mind and you dont why you want what you want.

Anonymous said...

ET@

Your beloved Erdogans and AKP's anti-democratic means have already been exposed and pretty much every Kurd east from Sivas knows this. Of course there are those who look through fingers and are better off with AKP's services and beyaz esye, and then there are honourable Kurds who see the danger that AKP composes towards the freedom of our people. What are you still yapping about, I do not know.

But heeeey, let us all be happy and sing happy hippie songs since Turkish streets are not so filled with guns as the Brazilian streets ( which is also wrong )

Turkish E.T. said...

"AKP's means have already been exposed"

what has been exposed?!

that sentence doesnt even make sense. What means? what exactly is "anti-democratic" ?

democracy is tyranny of the majority, whats antidemocracy? tyranny of 1? dictatorship?

"danger that AKP composes towards the freedom of our people"

you mean the other majority parties in the turkish parliement dont compose this danger??? or they just compose it less so that you dont find worth mentioning their name?

god. this senseless discontent is bothering me. nothing is perfect. many things arent right. but this doesnt mean positive change is not in place. things are changing for the better and if you are hopeless you ruin your life.

we should define a line between pessimism and hopelessness. I am sometimes a pessimist, and yet Im ready to do the right thing.

you are all hopeless. and you are all dangerous. because you dont believe any right thing can be done or is being done by anybody. that is whats dangerous.

Anonymous said...

Tell me one right thing AKP has done to the Kurdish people. Then tell me one wrong thing they have done to the Kurdish people. Then we can talk.

Is it not anti-democratic when they go around and give people services just to win votes? Why not let the poor Kurds vote with their hearts and what they actually think is right rather than getting blackmailed by coal, pasta and washing machines. If you can not see the anti-democratic means in this case, you are surely a lost soul and deserves not another reply from me or anyone else.

Anonymous said...

Really, it does not fit you acting all democratic when you can not even take distance to these clear violations on democracy and denial of the truth

Turkish E.T. said...

"Is it not anti-democratic when they go around and give people services just to win votes? "

no. its not antidemocratic. i wouldnt say its ethical. but tell me one thing politicians dont do to gain votes? they dont give services they give laundry machines? I say a laundry machine is better than a dry lie...

it is foolish for you to think that people who receive a laundry machine do not vote with their hearts. That is one thing AKP knows well, that the peaple of Turkey are not the idiots that they were anymore. That is how they came to power in the first place; a reaction of the public to being fooled for so much for so many years, that is how they will stay in power, and that is why they received "Yes"majority in the referandum.

Let me tell you what AKP has done good for the Kurds:
They are the first to publicly recognize them as they are: An ethnic minority (that is even too big to be a minority) that speaks a different language, has a taste of its own as a culture whether it be music or art and has an distinct history.

Let me tell you what they have done wrong:
they failed to communicate this fact properly to your average sunni muslim kemalist Turk who grew up, educated, lived without even realizing this simple thought to this day.

and for, this they are being punished by impatient kurds like you as well as the kemalists. You are not much different than the kemalists, you fail to see that even the closest alternative to AKP is 100 times worse than how AKP is, and even without this fact, that AKP, and only AKP actually recognizes the #1 problem of Turkey is the kurdish issue and are doing their best. Your childish patience, your seek for senseless revenge, can ruin everything.

Turkish E.T. said...

now you answer this: Who is Karayılan to you and other Kurds?

Anonymous said...

Hey ET, Karayilan is a hero to me.

You come here reasoning about practicality of the percentages? You REALLY have the guts to decide what will bring "chaos"? Who the hell are you to decide who can and cannot represent themselves? Do you ever notice how much you sound like a Kemalist or any other fascist?

Berfo

Turkish E.T. said...

Karayılan has power to explode bombs and kills people.

Fame and power. Once you get these you stick to them until you loose. Karayılan is a dangerous person because peace will not bring him any more power and he will hate to loose his fame among the gullible like you.
I'm sure you'll joyfully celebrate the chaos that he brings but to me its just murder.